Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

Your funny in fairness

I don't disagree at all on this as a discussion point. But it's a bit like saying that someone should have installed better anti-pest measures in a building while the place is absolutely crawling with them and the timber is about to collapse.

Is it possible that for countries with low take-up due to cultural or educational issues, that such issues could be reversed/overcome in the short term? Maybe if they use the carrot approach rather than the stick. But we know from the US, that some are so entrenched in their position that it would require an unreasonably large carrot to get them to take a vaccine.

So it's reasonable to suggest that we should be prepared for the eventuality that mandatory vaccination may be necessary to address the problem. That's the talking point. Hopefully the outcome of that discussion would place an onus on countries to try a load of other things first before resorting to a mandate as a final step. A framework of escalation to improve vaccination rates, that applies EU-wide, and applies a threshold that must be met before a member state is permitted to mandate vaccines - say less than 60% take up.

This is better than refusing to even entertain the idea and then the union being in complete disarray when it comes to figuring out the questions on human rights, certificates, travel, etc etc. As it is, I expect Austria and Greece's approaches will end up in the ECJ and take years to sort out. We could have these questions answered in advance to avoid vaccine mandates becoming a default tool.

It's a discussion and suggestion that shouldn't be tolerated. It's a slippery slope we could go down if we give them the powers to make vaccines mandatory. No doubt there is an element of lobbying going on by big pharma. It needs to be resisted and people need to retain choice. We all remember the campaign to have 8th amendment abolished. People should have the choice of autonomy.

Any data on how ill these people are or hospitalizations?

No idea, but if it is the case hard to see hospitality anywhere staying open for long.

If NPHET were simply meeting and sending recommendations to the Government then that rationale would hold. But we know they are far more active than that and are constantly on the airwaves which they use as a pulpit for more restrictions.

Was probably a very good party then

I actually thought you were joking about changing the closing times but had a look on the RTE website and found the following:

"NPHET will consider whether further measures should be recommended, such as a reduction in the size of hospitality gatherings, changes to opening hours or curbs on household visits.

Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan said that the infection rate has reduced, the public has responded to calls to reduce socialisation and the R number has reduced from 1.2 to 1.

Case numbers are also tracking better than the NPHET optimistic model.

Fresh modelling on the potential trajectory of the virus is being worked on and is expected to be ready early next week."

NPHET to consider further advice on Covid measures (rte.ie)

So despite the fact that we're performing better than NPHET's model expected in the optimistic scenario, we're considering further restrictions. Great. This is the kind of thing that winds me up about all this. If we'd genuinely just put restrictions in place for a few weeks until things improve, that would be fine. Instead, we're discussing more restrictions despite the improvement. Things are getting worse? More restrictions. Things are getting better? More restrictions. Better keep those restrictions in place for a few months after things have improved too, just in case. After all, we wouldn't want to implement more restrictions. It's farcical.

To top it all off we get another one of their wonderful and not at all inaccurate models to drive headlines for another couple of weeks. Wonder what will come out of the magic number generator this time - one million cases in January?

Imagine if the mods on here cared enough that when people spout this level of bollocks they have to actually provide some sort of proof.

But you got a few likes on the internet, isn't that all that really matters.

It's not a choice though. Mandatory vaccines shouldn't even be considered an option. Whatever the opposite outcome of not doing it is, that's the default option, regardless of what it looks like.

How would you feel if we could eradicate 95% of domestic violence cases in Ireland by mandating a microdosing of psilocybin or MDMA every morning? Or completely eliminate road traffic accidents by banning private vehicles? They're both options. Why don't we start doing stuff like that? The alternatives if we don't are horrific! People will be beaten behind closed doors! Teenagers will be maimed and killed in car accidents!

NPHET have completely lost the audience. FFG lost their voice last year when they went "meaningful" against NPHET recommendations and were caught out. Their decades of health system/capacity failures came back to haunt them. It meant NPHET could then operate a medical dictatorship unopposed. But now people are starting to see through their bluster and fear mongering. I'd say most people switch over when Tony is on TV. People are also completely fed up with the incessant media coverage on Covid. Headline news every single day for 21 months. Crazy.