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Transport Aircraft

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭sparky42


    It’s been the choice by the nation since it’s founding…



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    An before that we even had the french and spanish at various times in our history trying to help us



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    No, Jordanians were sold to Myanmar. These were passenger conversions, formerly used by WFP. We'd have to convert them back to be any use to us.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    That's the plan.

    Certain parties want an end to the policy of neutrality. What better way to do so than to make us so reliant on foreign military for everything that our stated neutrality is declared null and void.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭Sgt. Bilko 09


    exactly!…pressure from PESCO or UK is definitely in the pipeline. It’s horrendous situation which will boil over eventually. It excepted that if purchase or lease a fit for purpose aircraft, the certain TDs may stand at Baldonnel like they did at Shannon.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭sparky42


    There is zero pressure from PESCO and there never will be. The U.K. has to cover us because they can’t afford not to but after a hundred years I’m sure they’ve given up hoping we might step up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭Sgt. Bilko 09


    Well in 2017 it was highlighted and questions were asked as to the reasons why spending dropped from 1.1bln to 997mln “This has seen the Defence Forces under pressure to maintain numbers across the forces to ensure the security and operability of our forces within Ireland and their missions abroad.” The view from Pesco is we need to spending more comparing us from a neutrality perspective to Sweden. We have the same opt-in pact as Sweden but if we cannot spend on our own forces then we cannot participate in projects so there will be pressure eventually. You correct on the uk point, hope it will give them a kick.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Our response to that was to have zero involvement in current PESCO projects, apart from those we were already observers on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭Sgt. Bilko 09




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I slightly disagree with you and think 2/3 Casa 295 Military spec would be ideal for us for day to day transport needs. It makes sensce ecomically pilots, crew and maintaince. If we wanted heavy air lift we should give the germans a call about joining there A400M program

    https://www.janes.com/amp/germany-to-form-a400m-multinational-air-transport-unit-with-hungary/ZnlJK3dHVU9mZ28xajRJVkc5dVI5VFp1cVMwPQ2



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,074 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I'm not talking about heavy lift. An A400 would be a white elephant for us. Who knows, maybe post Defence Commission we might end up in a multi-national airlift agreement that operates the 400, but thats a long way off yet.

    I'm talking about the global standard for tactical utility airlifters, the super flexible, super available, super reliable, mid-size, C-130 Hercules. When you absolutely, positively have to rescue everyone in the room - accept no substitute.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭Sgt. Bilko 09


    Repatriation flights now needed for Irish citizens in morocco, id hate to be the civil servant making the begging phone calls to the France/UK



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Hope they kept the contacts from the last time, but sure nobody could have seen this coming... Those campaigning for putting some of the SAR back into the AC would be better spent arguing about getting some air lift rather than SAR.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    More than likely the UK pumas will be replaced by the AW149 otherwise lenonardo will close there yeoivil plant. So the british governenment will be forced to buy them. So i wonder would there be an oppertunity for the defence forces to add to that order for replacing the air corps 139s in the future?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,074 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Far too early in their service life for that. It'll be at least ten years before replacements in the medium-lift category are contemplated.

    Unless, of course, some SAR fudge is arrived at which sees the Air Corps performing the service, in part. I hope that doesn't happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I taught i read in the examiner or times a while back that 139 fleet life span had being halfed due to the 112 role and firefighting



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,074 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I missed that piece myself.

    Doesn't say much for the type, if true.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    I read something to that effect also. There was a notional usage of the type based on commitments at the time. (mostly training, occasional troop transport for exercise). It was never expected they would be doing dedicated Air Ambulance for this duration. Frequent use of Bambi Bu cket has also played havoc with the EC135s expected lifespan. They were only ever supposed to be for pilot training, now pilots are training in the US as the EC135 can't provide the necessary training hours to keep everyone current and train new pilots.

    Though it has to be asked by did we go from 14 helis to just 8 in one go and expect to maintain the same operational tempo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭sparky42


    That would require thinking of course…

    Though honest question was the fire fighting role even considered when the helicopters were bought? I could well imagine the weight and heat conditions burning through the lifespan of them given the level of usage they seem to get nowadays for firefighting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    There must be sone strain on the 139 fleet doing the role of 112. They seam to be going to call outs a few times a day and landing in rough spots where damage and extra wear and tear will happen compare to landing on nice concrete heli pads



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,464 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Would there be a better helicopter for both firefighting and air ambulance ?

    Cos I don't have a problem with them being used to do an essential job - and if that essential job wears the tool out more quickly ,well it's essential , essential jobs are why I have that tool in the first place ...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭Psychlops


    I notice possibly no IAC around today? R116 from Dublin did a tasking from Cork Airport to Newcastle in the UK.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,074 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Well it's Saturday, isn't it, the Air Corps is a 9-5 Monday to Thursday and 4.30 on a Friday type deal.

    Don't come at me, I do jest. Mostly.

    But seriously, its a good point made above that at peak there were 14 or 15 helicopters of 3 types on the Air Corps roster.

    Perhaps the heavier capability of the AW139 was intended to replace the work of 10 aircraft with 6, but maybe it wasn't quite that simple.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    We should never be a launch customer. When our AW139 was delivered, we were the first military customer. There wasn't even a military option in the brochure, instead it was "law enforcement".

    How do we keep getting sucked into the same trap?

    The 2 Gazelle should have been replaced with 2 EC135, fair enough.

    The 8 AIII with 6 EC145 (a type which our heli pilots are training on currently, the transition from a 135 being relatively straightforward.)

    The Dauphin which failed to demonstrate how a small 5T heli could do a multitude of tasks, should have been replaced by 2 types. 2 wildcat aboard ship (deck not set up for Seahawk) and 4 More on land.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,074 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Not sure that matters. Our DoD would never buy the 'M' version of anything, because a) they know it will never be deployed in theatre and b) they don't want to enrage the wets that sit in tents outside the Shannon Airport perimeter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    I firmly believe if they enraged re retired commandant enough, his ticker would give up and there would be no more protest.

    The only officer in the defence forces who ordered bayonets to be fixed against Irish citizens, engaging in protest. Thankfully there was a garda there who was able to defuse things before it got out of hand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 44 spark23


    I believe there was options around the time of the AW139 buy and that two were exercised to bring it up to six but the last two never taken out, I believe there was two options for EC135 also which could have possibly led to a fleet of 4 plus 8



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭roadmaster




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  • Registered Users Posts: 822 ✭✭✭newcavanman


    We should have bought Blackhawks. Ministers like being flown around in AW139s, it reminds them of the ubiquitous A109s of the Celtiic Tiger days. Don't think they would be so fond of a proper support helicopter like a Blackhawk



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