General British politics discussion thread

What do you mean 'the British'? The RNLI are a charity and will head out of their own volition. The knuckle draggers in Hastings will try to stop them

But your solution seems to be "more of exactly what is happening now, please".

Think this through. The rise in asylum seekers attempting channel crossing by boat is the outcome of three factors:

1. The UK won't accept claims for protection from anyone not in the UK.
2. The UK won't issue a visa to enter to the UK to anyone who they think might seek protection once in the UK.
3. The French, acting very much at the UK's behest, have been successful in interdicting the route into the UK that relied on smuggling via ferries or the Channel Tunnel. Entries by these routes are hugely down.

The upshot is that, to seek protection in the UK, you have to go there and the small boat crossing is the only viable way of getting there. So the rise in small boat crossings is very much the foreseeable response to UK government policy.

So, if you're bothered by the rise in small boat crossings and you don't think current situation is sustainable , you have to change the policies that produce the current situation. There are various things you can do — some unilaterally, others requiring international co-operation. Whether intentionally or through gross stupidity, the government is working hard to ensure that they won't be able to arrive at an internationally co-operative solution, so that narrows their options somewhat. In particular, it rules out returning those seeking protection to France, because that can only be done with the agreement of France.

Still, on the bright side, narrowing the options may not be a bad thing, since it simplifies the decision tree. The question becomes, what changes can the UK, acting unilaterally, make to address this problem? And all the answers are variants on "establish mechanisms by which people can seek protection in the UK that don't involve risking their lives in channel crossings". That could be by issuing visas to enter the UK for the purpose, or it could be by accepting and dealing with protection applications through UK embassies in other countries.

The French have also cited the UK's labour market as part of the problem, in that working off the books is too common there and attracting people. It would be interesting to find out if there is some overlap with the HGV driver shortage.

Are we confident the two are mutually exclusive? Would it be possible to claim asylum AND work off the books?

Ok, but let's be clear where we are at the moment. All states have a duty to rescue people who might be in trouble off their coasts. That is simple international maritime law. As already mentioned, however, the British government is currently passing a bill that will give officials the right to bypass those laws and turn those boats back, by force if they deem it appropriate. Initially, that bill also threatened to criminalise the RNLI and others who went to the aid of asylum seekers, but such is the popularity of the service, that the government has had to clarify it is exempt from the bill. Which just goes to show how silly this is - if an ordinary punter goes to help someone onto the beach they are liable for prosecution and a criminal record but not if they are RNLI. How does that even begin to make sense?

The tories retain Old Bexley and Sidcup but with a majority of just over 4,000, down from in excess of 19,000. Probably not as bad a result as it seems, though, as the swing to labour was just over 10% which is below the average for by elections. Richard Tice took some of that majority with 6.6% of the vote. The Tories still managed over 50% on a very low turn out.

Good god the turnout for that by-election is abyssmal, it baffles me how people can be so unengaged.

I suppose it's December, was a pretty inclement day yesterday, and I suspect quite a bit of the traditional conservative vote decided to stay at home. By way of comparison, the turnout was only very marginally lower than the Dublin Bay South by election that elected Ivana Bacik earlier this year.

So to sum up "the English a great bunch of lads" which is practically what you say to everything on this thread.

I don't think I have ever met someone swayed by the we are doing it for their own good rubbish. These people know the risks and are willing to die to cross so I don't think the UK making it harder is going to deter them. This isn't people coming over because they hear there are jobs going in M&S these are desperate people