Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

Are people on this thread seriously talking about Ireland getting fighter jets ''to defend ourselves'' if an invasion actually did happen our only chance would be Guerilla warfare in an attempt to make occupying us more trouble than it's worth.

UK did ok with Lightnings for many years. Absolute Rocket ship with no legs, two missiles. Remember those over wing tanks.

They moved to the Tornado which was a slug, but could loiter for hours. Couldn't fight its way out of paper bag.

TBH the Spitfire was the same. No legs. But with Ground based Radar and Fighter control as a coordinated system was exactly the right tool for the job at the right time.

What we want is not some worn out 1970's design. We want something new cheap to maintain and upgrade going forward. That is the Gripen because even the software and weapons are modular on those. Maintenance and running costs on something like a F16A/B is far higher. Gripen is a local supplier. There so much thats mutually advantageous with that.

Could we get 60~70% of the requirement for less cost with a light fighter/trainer? Maybe. Costs are a unknown. Do we want 60~70% of the requirement.

What part? Pretty much all of it.

Solution to an expensive car (even used), is a cheaper car.

A light fighter/trainer is not slow, and there lots of examples of them being armed with Radar and Air to Air and being Mach 1.5/2. Its not equivalent to a basic trainer, or even a turbo pro trainer. its a lead in Trainer for Jets. That means high speeds, emulate operational fighter planes with systems and operations and tactics. They've also been used operationally in this role by some nations.

On your bike with your half baked analogies

There are interceptors and there are aircraft for loitering on cap. I don't think we could justify flying around in vast circles over the sea burning vasts amount money in fuel for a handful of intercepts a year. That makes no sense. We could argue its a deterrent. But it doesn't deter the Russian playing hide and seek with the RAF.

Being able to get out and reach a belligerent with a sharp stick is one thing. You don't have to hang around for hours to do that though.

Why? If you escort your target out of the airspace, or to the ground, why would you loiter.

You're not going to "out" loiter a Long range Bear, or Transatlantic Airliner than can fly half way around the world.

So you're back to maintaining a CAP.

Which is precisely why the former GOC Air Corps estimated an active fleet of 16 aircraft would be needed to provide a 24/7 two-ship QRA, with a two-ship backup at any one time.

The only alternative is tankering and only 30 nations in the whole world operate that facility, at hugely significant cost.

The point is you don't maintain a cap, or a patrol. You scramble, (perhaps from multiple bases) do the intercept, you escort the aircraft out of your area, you return home. The RAF also send up its Tankers as well. There are a lot of resources needed for this beyond simply a few fighters.

You also have to be able to operate and co-ordinate with these other countries. Which of course has to be agreed, and practised, and maintained.

What your saying makes absolutely no sense, I said in the case of an invasion guerrilla warfare would be our only option.

Are you seriously delusional enough to think otherwise? That we would send out our few fighter jets and that would be the end of it? We would stand absolutely no military chance against any country that would invade us.

''there would be no hope of Irish people engaging in it'' you do realise the war of independence was a Guerilla war? Guerilla warfare was again used in Ireland from 1970 for 25 years or so.

I don't think you even know what Guerilla warfare is to be honest.

Absolute rubbish, the viet cong in Vietnam doesn't ring a bell to you? Ché Guevara and Castro in Cuba!!!?!? The war in Algeria?

What is your point in saying the Irish war of independence was a short action? It still convinced the British it was not worthwhile occupying most of Ireland anymore and forced a withdrawal, at least from most of the country.

The Taliban held a sustained campaign for 20 years which eventually sapped the will out of the Americans to remain there which then allowed them to take over the country when they left.

You said that ''In most cases, where it has succeeded, it has been due to having an enemy willing to sit down and negotiate terms for a cost effective withdrawal'' that's the whole bloody point of guerilla warfare!!!

This has got to be the most ridiculous post I've ever read on boards, congratulations!

''Unlike other European nations we have no large reserve with weapons experience or training, so the idea that in the event of an invasion a guerrilla style action is laughable, particularly given the advances we've seen in UAV capabilities''

So what do you suggest? I originally claimed guerilla warfare would be our only hope if an invasion happened and you denied that, so what do you suggest? Large scale conventional warfare?

TBH I think we could get away with some light jets with radar and A2A weapons, and radar etc. The problem with light jets, is they could cost very close to something like poverty spec Gripen. It very hard to get clear estimates of costs to compare them.

But everyone else seems to want top line fighters, supersonic scrambles then loiter and patrol for hours. Something we can fight WW III with. I don't think they appreciate the infrastructure and associated support that would require.

We would still have to work with, and deconflict with other Airforces.

This is the Swiss with the RAF....

Yorknite 2020

One point of correction is that the Taliban didn't win by attrition. They were a spent force. Its more the Afghan Army itself wouldn't step up, and it was finally realised, they would never step up. (more complicated than that, but thats the summary) So the Allies withdrew, and the Taliban, came back to fill the vacuum, and while some of the Afghan Army put up a fight, the majority didn't oppose them.

Not for war but policing

Most fighters these days are multi role. They also attack the ground so not just against other aircraft.

Not that it matters, in this fantasy invasion scenerio, anyone able to get to Ireland with an invasion force would overwhelm it anyway.

Its about policing the air space.

Again incorrect. The TB stopped fighting years ago. Then the Fathead rapist Trump in the US decided to win military votes by promising to get the troops home. He "negotiated" with the TB at their refuge in Pakistan for a US withdrawal. Seeing the vacuum forming they returned to their old ways, and because the US had not completed training a proper Afghan army, it disintegrated, and the TB took over.

Well done Trump. Best friend to all terrorists, be they foreign or domestic.