What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Ah sure

If you believe this thread Alan Shatter had an amnestly for 80,000 in 2012, theres 250,000 extra migrants in the country that were only just discovered and the EU pushed the Irish government to change these laws. Its full of disinformation that isnt true.

No because it cant be proven just like the convey- zappone gig but we all know cronyism and jobs for the boys n girls is there now dont we?

Yeah but this is the point - how narratives are presented and who they’re intended to appeal to. Like when the poster made the point about it being like Where’s Wally to try and spot a woman or child among the men on the boat in that particular photo, and bubblypop’s point was that just because they’re not in that particular photo, doesn’t mean there aren’t as many women and children immigrants as men (of fighting age, etc). In just the same way as the point is often made about the imminent threat to society posed by illegal immigrants.

When that’s not enough, tropes like suicide bombers are brought up (as though we should be suspicions of anyone in a burqa, etc), and every thread regarding mass killings in Europe and the US draws the same people salivating at the thoughts of using it as another opportunity to demonstrate how immigrants way of life is incompatible with our own culture and to portray immigrants as a threat to society.

Are the handful of people who commit these acts representative of the nearly one and a half million immigrants into Germany, as opposed of the handful of men who have sunk to prostituting themselves in order to survive? It depends upon the narrative one wants to portray to their intended audience. If 30% of your audience already perceive the country is being overrun with immigrants, your efforts to portray immigrants as a threat to society becomes a whole lot easier.

Merkel is in the same position as a lot of European leaders right now - their policies in encouraging using immigrants as a form of cheap labour are what led to their countries economic prosperity, and now those immigrants won’t just piss off after they’ve contributed to the countries economic prosperity, the people who have enjoyed the fruits of immigrants labour, are getting a bit tetchy because they perceive immigrants as wanting to share in their economic prosperity, and they’re not having it. It would be unfair, apparently - a consideration that didn’t seem to bother them when immigrants weren’t so visible in civilised society.

By referring to the one vote we got to cast in 25 years that sent a clear message, I know you’re not referring to the referendum on the 8th amendment where the tragic circumstances of the death of a conventionally attractive, wealthy, well-educated immigrant were used as though she was the poster woman for a campaign to repeal the 8th amendment. You’re referring of course to the vote in which there was a campaign to capitalise on the sentiment that immigrant women were getting pregnant to have their anchor babies in Ireland in order to stay here and avail of our generous welfare supports, at a time when Western economies had just come crashing back down to reality following the all fur coat and no knickers years.

Do I imagine that 25 years later, people who weren’t even born then will share the same sentiments towards immigrants as Irish society then when immigrants who didn’t look like them were something of a novelty in Irish society? It’s difficult to call it one way or the other tbh. No doubt the same tropes about anchor babies would be rolled out, but I reckon identity politics and virtue signalling on social media would be a greater factor in influencing the vote.

That narrative is unlikely to appeal to people who consider themselves among “the squeezed middle” demographic who imagine the Irish society they know is in decline. That same sentiment has been expressed by many people in this thread already and the same sentiments which made Thilo Sarrazin a household name in Germany in 2010. At the time he was a member of the SPD party, CDU’s main political opposition. It’s safe to say he was attempting to capitalise on Germany’s anti-immigration sentiment for his own personal and political gain (Peter Casey style) -

The extreme wariness of Muslims toward the census cannot be dissociated from the general context. The census was conducted in social waters recently roiled by the August 2010 publication of Thilo Sarrazin’s polemic essay, Deutschland schafft sich ab (Germany is doing itself in). Sarrazin, a member of the SPD, head of the Berlin Senate’s finance committee and later on the board of directors of the Bundesbank, sharply accused Muslim immigrants as a whole of not wishing to integrate, inordinately burdening social welfare system finances and “downgrading [Germany’s] human capital.”

It’s still the case today that in an attempt to unseat the absolute unit that is Angela Merkel, the opposition are attempting to appeal to the younger demographic by portraying a narrative promising cultural revolution -

The phrase “Vorsprung durch Technik” comes to mind. Ironically enough, it wasn’t a German who popularised that narrative of German engineering, but a Brit -

The same narrative portrayal of immigrants that swung a vote 25 years ago at a time when people were resentful of the handful of immigrants who they could point fingers at as being responsible for the ruination of the economy, is unlikely to be as influential in todays society where it’s considerably more difficult to portray immigrants as being a threat to society given that they’re more visible in Irish society and people’s perceptions and experiences vary considerably, making it difficult for people who wish to portray immigrants as a threat to society - a narrative which most people simply aren’t able to relate to. It’s a narrative which only appeals to a tiny minority in Irish society.

None of that is to do with this law being introduced.

Shure it is

You're right. I got the number wrong.

There was an amnesty for over 17,000 (possibly 22,000 or 28,000) long-term (bogus) asylum claims.

It's hard to pin down the numbers on account of the slippery way Shatter phrases things:

"When the Government came into office 15 months ago on 9th March 2011, there was an enormous backlog of approximately 22,000 citizenship applications awaiting decision. Approximately 17,000 of these had been waiting in a barely moving queue for in excess of 6 months with an average waiting time in excess of two years. Some, indeed, had waited 3 to 4 years. I am proud that, since I came to Office, I have made decisions on nearly 28,000 applications for citizenship."

https://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/SP12000186

So the point remains, this isn't a once-in-a-lifetime event. It happened before.

Also, Charlie Flanagan stated that "20,000 minors have been granted Irish citizenship over the last five years."

https://www.bitchute.com/video/dH3YbwgaeCOP/

How many adults were granted citizenship then, if there were 20,000 minors? Let me guess, was it 17,000 again?

Notice how we never get clear numbers. We have to infer them from remarks that justice ministers let slip from time to time.

So that's 17,000 under Shatter, 17,000 (at a guess) under Flanagan, and another 17,000 under McEntee. That's 51,000 in less than ten years, that we know about.

Sure, maybe they're all legit applications that are just being hurried along. That's why they have to be given citizenship under a special "once-in-a-lifetime" scheme.

Maybe you can educate me then by telling me what proportion of those granted citizenship under this latest "scheme to regularise undocumented migrants" are illegal.

I'd disagree, most people didn't know the EU was headed for a federal superstate, even today a lot of people aren't aware of it. Its operated through integration by stealth , has suffered a series of humiliating defeats in referendums only for the countries to have to vote again or get outright ignored like I pointed out previously regarding the French and Dutch rejection of an EU constitution, only for them to turn back to integration by stealth and bring it back as the Lisbon treaty, which was made " unpenetrable" to the public as D'Estaing put it, even removing language referring to constitution,flags, anthems symbols to hide its political ambitions and cut off any calls for referendums on it.