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Mica Redress

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 578 ✭✭✭VillageIdiot71


    Grand. So most actually won’t have much of a mortgage hanging out of them, despite the spin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭doc22



    A contractor on Pat Kenny talked about the cost of constructing a property in Donegal 127sqft excl vat 144 inc, and then asked was the 145 redress enough! no his price went up to 170/180. The contractors are licking their lips with all the government money......



  • Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭doc22


    I'd say a sizable portion of the large houses are self-builds with cash in hand labour(no tax and perhaps dole). The prices floating about now for reconstruction bare no relation to original costs (were income tax and vat were dodged and perhaps mates' rates used).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Not just hard working people and often having to work away from home.

    Looking at the amount of mates rates, tax dodging dole scams mentioned in this thread I would say alot of the posters here seem well up on how they work. Leaves me wondering who the scammers may be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭doc22


    Give me a break re the "Work away from Home", is that the holiday homeowners.

    I think its ridiculous people heading the mica campaign have massive houses and good jobs "lecturing" etc with adequate means don't seem to want to contribute a penny into reconstructing their own home yet are have happy enough for taxpayers to do so and also letting all those buying/building a home into the future pay through a block levy. With 2000 families on the Donegal housing list I feel the money could be better spent on council houses that are more adequate to people needs (not 2500sqft) based on peoples requirements not wants(not the dream house BS).

    Funny enough it's the exact same contractors who sourced and built with the faulty blocks are now lined up for the big payday too(joke)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    What big pay day will the contractor get. Probably be mates rates and tax Dodgers built by dole men according to you. Make up your mind.

    You seem to be very well up on the whole doing the double tax dodging side of things.

    Please don't judge people by your own morals.



  • Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭doc22


    Ok I'll use the term builders so

    Morals, Like the main mica spokesperson failing to register his second property for the RTB. Cowboys.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Why should I care what you think, likely never paid a days tax in your life but made full use of mine. Might be wrong but who cares. Seems everything you're spouting about the homeowners and contractors is based on your own speculation and not fact so I thought I would throw in mine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 578 ✭✭✭VillageIdiot71


    Isn't there a disconnect between the unwillingness of the owners of these houses to contribute even 1% of the costs, coupled with the expectation that everyone else should pony up 100% without question.

    And, bear in mind, they're getting away with it. No-one is saying "OK, your problem is that even where the Government gives you €420,000 of other people's money, you'll still have to pony up €40,000. And your proposed solution is that other people should pony up €460,000."

    Bonkers, but tolerated as a respectable position. Absolutely no chance of Government saying "given the stunned reaction of the people who will be paying for all this, our offer is withdrawn. Give us a shout if that means you are actually homeless right now."



  • Registered Users Posts: 578 ✭✭✭VillageIdiot71


    In some strange way, doc's speculation seems to resonate more.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭LawBoy2018


    I agree. They lost me when they began using their children as pawns



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭LawBoy2018


    Also, I think the way the Mica campaigners abuse politicians on Twitter is quite reprehensible. If it were me, I would lose all interest in trying to find a solution for them tbh.

    The Government should agree to build homes for the families affected by Mica but without giving them beneficial ownership of the properties, instead the adults should be afforded a life interest in said homes. That way, the housing could ultimately be used for social housing in the decades to come, rather than leaving a fat hole in the public purse for taxpayers to offset.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Not hard to know the kind of posters posting on here. Some quoting the Pat Kenny show.

    How much of your so called taxes went to him not to mention the noise he made about a care home destroying his neighbourhood.

    Children as pawns. Yous are the masters of this making them sleep in a gardai station to make a point.

    Didn't hear much complaining when you're taxes if you pay taxes went to fund the homeowners in Leinster. Double standards or what.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭LawBoy2018


    That would be their parents fault actually, not the general public. Don't have children if you can't support them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 578 ✭✭✭VillageIdiot71


    There’s many failings and in the mica campaign, like their attempt to equate the €150 million spent by Government on pyrite homes in five counties including Limerick, an average of €65,000 per house, with the multi-billion Donegal McMansion Blank Cheque Scheme.

    Some have also mentioned the multi-billion bank bailout.

    As if being forced to pay for the mistakes of others in the past means we can’t say “enough”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Totally agree. People in Donegal worked hard to build fine homes to support their children. And that's why they are fighting to make sure that their children have a home.

    And certainly didn't use them as pawns.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭LawBoy2018


    If they were that desperate to provide a home for their children, they would have accepted one of the previous offers made by the Gov and been grateful for such a deal. I'm not sure about you, but parents dragging their children out of school and up to Dublin to parade them around the city for RTE news would seem to me as though they're being used.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Just working out handy for some to say enough when it's certain west coast and northern counties that are in need of help.

    Not about money at all I think, its all about the geographical position of certain counties for some.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭LawBoy2018


    What planet are you on? Of course it's about the money.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,603 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Any time a child is used to make a political point, they are being used as pawns.

    Sorry to be so blunt about it but it really is that simple.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Planet reality.

    Its about getting families there homes back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭LawBoy2018




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,603 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    I'm sorry, but it's clear that it isn't and never was. The campaigners seem to have a big problem with the exclusion of investment and holiday home properties so is that really about family homes?

    This is and always was about making people financially whole.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Totally agree again. Do these homes not belong to the children as much as the parents. The children will be homeless as well as the parents when the house falls down. Sorry but I don't agree that the children were used as pawns.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    No just %100 redress the same as the last scheme of this sort in other counties.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,603 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Unless the children could choose entirely of their own free will to attend and participate in a protest movement (and children, by definition can't) they are being used by the parents.

    Used in order to bulk out protests and used to make a political point.

    Children present or not, the outcome would be the same regardless - it's as if people believe that government officials cannot see through such stunts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    These people also paid their taxes and vat when building in the state.

    Also take a semi detached house sharing same roof and joined. One a private home one a holiday home. How is this overcome.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,603 ✭✭✭MrMusician18




  • Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭Luttrell1975


    Who did the building surveys for the folks who bought these houses?

    Sorry if someone else already asked this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    We had no need to bulk up the protests. Even state ran RTE were very economic with the numbers and their reporting. And what do you do with your children when most of your family is heading down to support the cause.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Where are you getting this conclusion from. Do you watch any of the programmes about the families affected.

    Maybe you don't want it to about family homes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,603 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    It's not just about family homes, it's also about investment property and holiday homes. The protesters shout about the former, whisper about the latter but when they were excluded from the scheme - oh no, completely unfit for purpose they claim.

    Programmes about the issue, where the protesters take you around the very worst examples and paint it as typical? Those programmes? Yet when you look at the mica map and the houses then on Google Street view (yes the photos are recent) you'd be hard pressed to determine that a large proportion of them had any issue at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    There are homes at different stages of deterioration but it's only a matter of time before they will all crumble. Once mica is present it's only heading one way. And it's definitely not a case of showing the worst few houses on every broadcast. Some people spent every few months filling cracks and painting trying to prolong the outcome and you definitely won't see the true devastation on Google maps.



  • Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭doc22


    What ever about children, I have seen the pensioners and disabled wheeled about for the cause. It's like look at these people they could never fund reconstruction for their small house so now you have to fully fund my 3000sqft built( I could pay something but don't want too) and my buy to Let too(rent into the back pocket with zero contribution), an absolute joke.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Malinheader havent you got a forum where nobody is allowed disagree with the "100% redress we dont care how, why or how much"?

    This thread is imo gone over the top in criticising those looking for redress but that is only natural when the other main thread is run like a pravda operation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 97 ✭✭SBourgaize


    Sounds like there's something wrong with your insurance then - if my house burned down, my insurance would cover it (and it's a basic Allianz package, nothing extravagant). Crucially though, it would cover housing my family until the building is restored and liveable again.


    They paid for their house too, getting into the specifics of size is pointless. If life were as simple as a game like the sims, where the walls could be replaced without moving anything inside or being able to live inside while it happened, none of this would be an issue.

    They aren't looking for a blank cheque though. What we want is;


    Unsafe building demolished.

    Walls rebuilt and inside restored to pre-demolition.

    Accommodation for inhabitants.

    Storage for personal belongings.


    This should be considered reasonable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 97 ✭✭SBourgaize



    Other countries also have 100% privatised medicine, should we copy that? Pointing at what other governments do is nonsense.


    My survey was carried out correctly, no one should expect they need to test the blocks the house is built from to make sure they meet the standard.


    What are you even talking about? The builders set their day rate + materials, and were paid as such.


    Your other issues (rent, equity, childcare) are all separate issues. Dealing with one issue does not mean every other issue has to be ignored.


    We are also not being provided close to 90%.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    The people affected by mica aren't covered by insurance for it though. Your house insurance will often cover rebuild cost up to X, you specify X when taking out the policy. The state doesn't have a legal obligation to provide compensation, otherwise those affected would have brought a case. We can't have a situation where the state is ultimately financially responsible for all products meeting regulations.

    I think the redress in its current form is extremely generous, too generous even. It certainly shouldn't cover holiday homes or investments. It shouldn't cover self certified builds either. There should be a lower cap on rebuild cost as well, they could build smaller houses.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 97 ✭✭SBourgaize


    That's why we're fighting for redress, our insurance specifically doesn't cover it. My rebuild cost in my insurance matches the estimation by SCSI.


    Technically the state does not currently have a legal standing one way or the other, as it has not been taken to court. However, previous examples like the Pyrite scheme (and yes, it cost less, but it still would have been covered if more houses were affected, you can bet on that) set the precedent for it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    It should be the supplier of the faulty product who is responsible. If you thought you would win, you would take the state to court IMO. Could it maybe be part funded by increasing local property tax in affected areas?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 97 ✭✭SBourgaize


    Legal action was taken against Cassidys (the supplier.



    Ann and Vincent Gorman told Prime Time they sued Cassidy Brothers after three visits from its managing director David Cassidy about their block problems in 2010 and one in January 2011 did not resolve the problem.


    A short letter from the firm’s solicitor confirmed that Cassidy Brothers did not have insurance that would cover the potential claims.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Right, so you aren't covered by insurance and the supplier wouldn't be able to cover the cost either. What about builders, engineers etc? I would imagine a lot of builds were done as self certified, would that be the case? The costs are lower, it shifts the risk onto the owner, or in this case the state.

    Maybe one off build should have to have better certification which they would pay for themselves. Probably also an insurance policy that would cover build issues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,603 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    If you bought your house for less than the build cost, someone had to swallow that loss. Did you go chasing that person to make them good? Did they get their 100% redress? Or were you happy to pick up a bargain and just tough for those that lost out on the collapse? I don't mean to pick on you but it's hard to stomach complaints from people who were participating in the burning of others a few years ago.

    While indeed other issues are unrelated, it is my opinion that they are far more worthy of government support over rebuilding homes for the following categories of people/building owners:

    *Second home and holiday home owners *Investment property owners

    *homes of the wealthy that can afford to contribute

    *Homes that will be under occupied

    *homes that significantly exceed the national average in size.

    The proposed government scheme goes beyond even what I consider fair to the rest of the taxpayers, particularly first time home buyers. It's them that will pay for this, through general taxation and the €800m forecast to be raised by the block levy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    that Diver lad is dangerous. highly strung, capable of anything.

    Yet he's the unofficial High King of Donegal.

    Any chance we can give Donegal to the UK?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    So they'll spend money on painting and filling up cracks yet won't put a cent towards the actual rebuilding? Makes sense....



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    He seems to have a real chip on his shoulder about Dublin. It will be mostly Dublin taxes paying for the rebuilds though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,603 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Some of those involved have clearly developed a taste for campaigning. I suspect when this is resolved (if it ever is), it won't be the last we hear of them



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    Maybe this was asked before but has any actual builder/contractors ended up with Mica houses? what I mean did any local builders in the area end up building their own house during this period and use these blocks?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 97 ✭✭SBourgaize


    Builders/engineers are off the hook as they bought from a certified producer, under the assumption that the certified blocks were up to code.


    The house was built in the mid 2000s, price deprecation/negative equity is unfortunately a normal thing. This isn't a good example in my specific case, as the owner died of cancer and her children sold the house.


    No one is saying we should support redress and to hell with everyone else. That's not how budgeting works at a country level.


    Is this honestly where the discourse is now? Give Donegal to the UK? FFS.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 97 ✭✭SBourgaize


    There's a pretty significant difference in price between paint + filler, and upwards of 50k on a house that a bank will not give a loan towards. I'm sure you can manage the math on that one.



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