To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

You are incorrect. There are nine grounds laid out in law for which you cannot discriminate on in the provision of goods and services. Discrimination on grounds outside these nine is not illegal

Your incorrect about so many things. SEE post #5365 12-11-2021 5:57PM

Are kids required to wear masks in shops now?

For some folks it's easier to post and complain about dirty old rug over the face, making statements people even don't wash it, masks don't work etc. Instead of using at least Google to find some info, when government fails on messaging.

Because then, it'd make it hard for people to wear them under their noses

I'm pretty sure you got it wrong there.

So if you need to have open surgery, you'd be happy to have the surgeon and the other medics in the operating theatre unmasked. I see...

Are you saying that viruses fly out of people mouths and noses singly, and not hitching a ride on vapour droplets?

Try breathing on a cold window, without a mask, and then with a mask. Notice any difference?

Thanks, interesting article, even if a bit technical. However, see below for what it says in section 5:

This would suggest that they think facemasks are not just a visual reminder of the pandemic, but a practical aid in reducing the risk of transmission.

To me this makes perfect sense. As I mentioned in my last post, if you breathe on a cold window it will steam up. However if you put on a mask and then breathe on a window it doesn't steam up. Surely this must mean that the mask is stopping some, or most, of the vapour droplets from reaching the window, and thus would reduce droplets / aerosols reaching another person in front of you?

👍🙂 That’s a super interpretation of that article & kudos for reading it through - I wholeheartedly agree with your points.

Here are some further points I’d infer from that part you quoted-

Id agree that masks do reasonably well to prevent droplets especially in symptomatic people who would cough & sneeze. Also in a clinical setting v imp to wear mask. The standard of mask in clinical setting is higher (like N95) which gets discarded after short-term use. Full PPE also helps. My assumption (and I may be wrong) is that whilst viral load (exhaled) may be reduced that particles can still ‘escape’ & that the aerosol particles could still penetrate the mask (via inhalation / exhalation). -Esp if particles are 4-8 microns in size.

So in public- masks come in all types with various porous diameter. They are worn in all sorts of ways - stuffed into pockets, left on the dashboard etc and put back on which can lead to other infections. I do believe they prevent spread of coronavirus -esp in symptomatic people with coughs etc … and the early guidelines were to wear one if you have symptoms- makes sense. Yet the aerosol particle size is so small that it could pass through the pores of a mask (perhaps like a fly through chicken wire-but we’d need to get the pore diameter to make accurate analogy) …and say if it doesn’t - then rest could fall on the mask - get transferred to fingers ..,and you pick it up anyway. At best they reduce spread somewhat but not stop. Washing hands & some distance are a great idea.

If masks are worn all day- what are the implications? And if these implications outweigh the potential benefits of preventing infectious spread , well that’s important to consider. It’s too narrow to make a mandate simply on masks provide benefit against X

Id like to look through studies on which the mask mandate is based. Remember that studies have also been made which conclude that in public they are of little benefit. Even experts speaking to COVID task force in government stated this.

So let’s guess at the negative effects:

-increased intake of CO2 / decrease of O2 uptake - how does that effect body / cognitive functioning / pH levels / immune system functioning / does that contribute to cardiac or lung conditions or exacerbate them?

-risk of bacterial infection / transmission from poor mask hygiene / not changing mask

-psychological -public exposed to decreased facial body language. -Implications- less smiling. Smiling (given/received) boost serotonin levels & immune system, booost children’s social, emotional & cognitive development. Smiles give a sense of safety & security in the environment. Does lack of smiling (plus increased CO2 intake) decrease mood socially. If mood is decreased, is the public more sensitive to negativity and fear & cause a downward spiral? Could depression/anxiety increase? If in a more fearful state is their capacity for clear rational thinking diminished in anyway? - if reduced , is rationality bypassed -leading to emotive responses based on fear headlines and following herd mentality Vs independent thought. Do stress levels increase? If so what are the effects over a prolonged period…months/years from now.

-what are the environmental impacts on land / sea ecosystems due to masks (plenty on the ground)

-mask material- does material cause health issues (certain masks have been banned)

There are plenty more questions we could ask.

It is too easy to promote a conclusion on area of focus and say “masks work” without due consideration to ALL the knock-on effects of long term usage in society which most likely will/are causing further issues.

At best- they reduce spread esp amongst symptomatic / promote compliance via visual cue / perpetuate a sense of ‘event’ and going along with it. But if negatives outweigh this ….then they should not be mandatory but voluntary (with some exceptions).

My guess is long term - the negatives will in time outweigh positives for long term usage esp amongst children in developmental stages. I’m open to debate though 😅 that’s how true science works and I love science. The ‘current science’ lacks open debate sadly … but I still remain in a positive state thanks to my meditation 😀

Peace & happiness 😅🙏🌤

Not sure I agree with all of your points there...it's been shown many times that masks do not reduce O2 intake, not sure where you got your information from. It has also been shown that even if the weave in a mask is not tight enough to catch all aerosol particles they will still catch some (the virus particles do not form an orderly queue to exit out the gaps in the mask, many are trapped in the weave of the mask regardless of the size of the holes).

I don't think anyone with half a brain is saying masks eliminate the chance of spreading the virus, but they certainly reduce the risk of spreading it.

Carbon dioxide increases with face masks but remains below short-term NIOSH limits

Emphasis here is on short term use …. What about long term?

Also there are considerations re. people predisposed to breathing difficulties- ie smokers , overweight, lung issues such as emphysema and COPD - these should also be taken into account.

But you also said they decrease the O2 intake, I never mentioned CO2, you just chose to respond with an answer to a question that was not asked!

The article you linked shows no change in oxygen saturation with any of the masks. So where is the decrease in O2 uptake comeing from? What is the point of speculating on possible outcomes to a problem that does not exist?

Not so much time this evening but will consider your points my friend, thank you 🙏🙂