Is Ireland Racist?

As a country? No, I don't think so. We have long seen an affiliation with other groups or societies prejudiced against which I think has led us to be more naturally accepting towards others. We also don't have the colonial past or superiority complex which I think is the root cause in other countries where it is a significant problem. We don't have the history of ingrained racism within organizations or institutions such as exist in the US or previously in Northern Ireland. Irelands work place laws also are very progressive in ensuring that any such practice that might nurture a fledgling racist frame of mind are challenged pretty quickly. But I say all that as a white Irish person, so maybe I'm just not seeing something that doesn't affect me.

But there are some racists within. And not just Gemma and her handful of vocal supporters. We've seen plenty unpleasant stories of public figures being targeted with racist remarks by Irish people and also video footage where members of the public are targeted (by other members of the public) in the same way.

I think any act of racism or evidence of it should be rooted out no matter how small or apparently insignificant it is because to not do so allows such practice to appear normal or acceptable. I think there are a significant number of people who use very stringent criteria for something to be seen as having been racist and so they argue vehemently that some behaviour, that someone else might feel is racist, is not actually such. I think in their mind, as long as you don't use the N word, or a similar undisputedly offensive term, then you're not really being racist and that I think we should continue to call that out for what it is. I also think a lot of these people are quick to target or try to undermine someone who is trying to highlight racism moreso than they are whoever did behave unacceptably.

Racism isn't a genetic trait you are born with, it can grow and fester if not challenged or if encouraged to do so by like minded individuals. We saw the way Brexit in the UK led to an increase in racist sentiment, just because Ireland or anywhere else can be seen as non-racist now, doesn't mean it isn't something that shouldn't be guarded against. And whatever about Twitter, where I ignore anonymous accounts, on here there's been a significant increase in the types of threads and discussions on topics around this whole space with plenty, questionable views expressed within them. But, that's a handful of accounts rather than a significant change in the national mindset, in my view.

In general, the less exposure to/contact with people of different ethnic/cultural backgrounds we have, the more likely we are to hold racist views. In other countries, the areas with the fewest ethnic minorities/immigrants are the areas where concerns about race or immigration are felt most strongly.

If this holds good for Ireland, then you might think that, in the past, when Ireland have little immigration and few people of an ethnic minority background, racist views might have been quite widespread, but not often expressed because they occasion for expressing them did not often arise. As Ireland became more cosmopolitan and diverse, the prevalence of racist views in the population might be expected to diminish over time but their expression might rise, at least for a time.

As to whether racist view are widespread now, the simple test is to ask people from cultural or ethnic minority backgrounds what their experience is. Whatever it is, listen to it. If you know few or no people of cultural or ethnic minority backgrounds that you can ask, that in itself might suggest that there's a fair degree of practical segregation at work in Irish society.

Oxford English Dictionary: "Prejudice, antagonism, or discrimination by an individual, institution, or society, against a person or people on the basis of their nationality or (now usually) their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized"

I always thought that the Irish view was the simplest one in the world; just don't be a cnut. That's mine. I don't care where you're from, what you look like or which alphabet you go by, just don't be a cnut. If you're not, we may get along.

The definition I quoted is the one in the Oxford English Dictionary (the big one, not the Shorter or the Concise); doubtless that's where the CRER got it from.

The OED definition would not cover two warring countries, unless they were at war for reasons to do with race or ethnicity. But if it did cover two warring countries, wouldn't your suggested definition also cover two warring countries even more clearly?

Yours looks much too wide: unfair treatment of, or violent behaviour towards, people of a different race would under that definition, be "racism" regardless of reason or motivation. At least the OED definition only covers treatment directed at people on the basis of their nationality, race or ethnicity.

Which dictionary does your suggested definition come from?

One of the worst cases of racism I've seen recently was after the George Nchenko killing. The Spar workers caged into the shop while shouts of "white bastards" were directed at them. Turn on RTE the next day, they conveniently sweep in under the rug "Peaceful protests around the country". I'm sick of the double standard towards genuine racism, just call it out for what it is.

There's less in this rant than meets the eye. Obviously the "racism" term has been understood as derogatory since at least 1945, so saying that people use the term to denigrate the opinions of others does not, in itself, suggest that they are using the term wrongly. Similarly, saying that they use it as "a synonym for prejudice, fascism, bigotry, xenophobia, unconscious bias" isn't saying much; racism is prejudiced, bigoted and xenophobic; fascists are often - even usually - racists, and unconscious bias can - obviously - be racist. So, again, these usages are not necessarily problematic.

As for objections to the resettlement of refugees being denounced as racist when, in fact they are not, can you quote some examples - preferably, with links - of objection which are not racist but which have been denounced as racist? I'm not saying such a thing never happens, but I doubt that this is the dominant use. And of course there are many countervailing examples of people who deny that their views are racist when they quite obviously are.

As for John Smoke, I have no idea who he is but the tone of his writing does not suggest that he is going to offer a dispassionate or balanced account of this (or any other) topic. I'm hoping for cites with a bit more credibility.

Is Ireland racist?

At a national/structural level, then No. There are countries in which some element of discrimnation is pretty much woven into the structure/identity of the country, and Ireland is not one of them.

Are there pockets of racism? For sure, like everywhere.

Are there people who like to shoehorn racism into everything, as a motivation for any incident involving people of different races? Definitely.

Are there people who like to argue endlessly about how X isn't racist, really, when you look at it from this pointless angle? Definitely.

Are there people who like to blindly sling the term 'racism' around the place when somebody raises a legitimate issue? Definitely.

Are there people who think they are being oh-so-cunning by cloaking their racism in 'a legitimate issue'? Definitely.

I'd say similar about 'racism' as I've said about 'rape' in the past - everybody agrees that it's wrong, but there's huge disagreement (and much of that disingenuous) about what it actually is.

Can anyone point out a non-racist country? Where is this utopia?

@osarusan wrote:

This is a good comparison. Like sexual assault/sexual harassment, it's one of those things that for a subset of people, it happens frequently enough to be a regular part of their life. For everyone else, they rarely if ever see it happening.

And it results in a disconnect - the first group experience it so often that they can only assume the second group are aware of it but ignore it or take part in it. The second group see it so infrequently - if ever - that they struggle to accept that it is as ubiquitous as the first group makes it out to be.

The reality is that both situations can be true - that some people experience or engage in racism on a regular, perhaps even daily basis, and that everyone else, even a majority, are completely unaware of it.

OP, according to this recent survey, a lot of Irish people are on the fence and will not reveal their true opinion in public but behind the scenes is different.

Opinions are different. Racism exists in every country. Prejudice and discrimination also exists in every country in the world.

Direct discrimination, Indirect discrimination, Positive discrimination and Positive action are all well and alive in any country.

An interesting book published by Gordon Allport in 1954, an American psychologist published a book called "The nature of Prejudice" in which he identified five levels of prejudice. Allport related his scale particularly to the Jews in Nazi Germany.

OP, Ireland is no more racist as a country than any other in the world.

This 100%. I too work in a multinational tech company and have repeatedly heard this assessment of Irish people.

If you consider it from the perspective of the native Irish though, why would you bother befriending internationals, many of whom are only passing through for a few years anyway. It’s not like you’re going to de-prioritize existing relationships with your family and long standing friends, to carve out time to spend with immigrants.

I actually pulled up one the foreign guys on my team for subtly implying that his Irish colleagues are ‘racist’ because they choose not to spend time with him outside the office. Thankfully, the message landed loud and clear.

Yes. I agree. What bothered me was the guy who reports to me, hinting in a not so subtle manner, that his Irish colleagues are xenophobic. I pretty much told him what you outlined above, but in a more diplomatic, work-appropriate manner.

I lived abroad myself for a long time and know just how difficult it is to penetrate local friendship groups. I threw myself into a club for a sport that I enjoy. However, it was at least 3 or 4 years before I was even on the radar of many of the natives. After a decade in the country, I had 5 or 6 really great mates. It takes a huge amount of effort.

On the other hand, I know and work with foreigners who have been in Ireland for up to 20 years and yet seem to have minimal contact with Irish people. They exist in the expat bubbles you describe and are quick to label Irish people as ‘distant’ without ever putting in the hard graft to build friendships.

Jesus Christ but this comes across like the view of someone who learned everything they know about non-white, non-english speaking people from British stand up comedians who were somewhat big in the 80's.

Surely you wrote this as a joke?