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Paid cash in hand?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,275 ✭✭✭koutoubia


    Its a little bit complicted but the short answer is that I get a full weeks wages even when I wasnt working over the summer.

    I also get a payslip via email.

    I have also been taken on as a full time driver in recent weeks as there is enough work to justify it.

    If you want to pm me no issue.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,852 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Are people allowed to pick and choose whether they pay income tax and PRSI because personally I'd love to hold onto what I'm currently seeing taken each month?

    Also, if a business manages to hide cash payments from the taxman, what other outgoing payments are they hiding?

    If a business such as the one the OP is working for, needs to pay employees under the counter, I would wonder what other corners are being cut to save costs. Are the busses properly maintained? Are they taxed and insured properly? Is the OP insured to drive the bus (or is the policy for "employees" only)?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Get your tax statement for a year and check how much you got paid for actual work and multiply by .08 to get a approx what you should have got for paid leave. Employees get 20 days minimum if they work full time for a year. If you only got a week's paid holiday (5 days) this suggests you only work the equivalent of 3 months full time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,044 ✭✭✭happyoutscan


    Sorry op for the wrong information. I don't receive physical payslips anymore so assumed it was the same for everyone (I thought I remembered being told something along the lines of what I told you).

    I just check revenue for the info I need.

    Hope you get it sorted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,669 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    This guy appears to have some cash income and he fancies having a driver working somewhat casually. It's happening all over.

    No doubt that is happening. But, generally not where someone is working with kids and driving a vehicle. IT still could be, but how do you think insurance or Gardai would react in the event of an accident if the OP wasn't actually an employee.

    Insurance companies generally start by looking for a way to get out of paying out money, whatever the adverts might portray.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 685 ✭✭✭Housefree


    Sign on the social as well if your getting paid in cash



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    A lot of negative assumptions. He's an employer, he must be a crook. Similarly, someone is a landlord, they must be a bad one.


    At €300 odd a week there is feck all advantage to either the employer or employee for a "cash" payment.

    And what's a "wad of notes" - I had a "wad" of €1500 during the summer. Am I now a crook?

    It's possibly a scenario whereas the employer gets the wages done monthly, but wants to ensure the employee is paid each week.

    The employer quotes a net rate to the employee and let's the accounts person sort out the books. (Most accountants will still and always will call it "the books")

    In small rural businesses, this still happens. Accountants don't like it as it takes more work, but it's a hell of a lot more common than city folk would think.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sorry, that's bollix. Who quotes a net rate, when everybody is taxed differently? Different tax credits and tax bands. Every employee would cost differently.

    I would strongly suspect those being "paid net" and "sorted at the end of the month" aren't in fact being put through "the books"* at all. THAT happens.

    Is the OP one... she should at the very least consider it.

    Also, if an accountant is talking to someone and has to resort to telling a client someone needs to be put "through the books" it's probably in the context of, 'you can't be doing that, they need to be put through the books' in a way some people need to be talked to in words of as few syllables as possible.


    *happy?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This is terrible advice, illegal and could have the OP in prison if it went on long enough and got discovered.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,596 ✭✭✭California Dreamer


    €300 a week to look after my kids and others and make sure they get safely to school?

    If this was my home town I would have a serious issue with this.

    Now I question are the buses safe, passed DOE, insured etc.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33 Bikeboo


    I drive school buses. You’re getting paid the average rate for a double run. Secondary and primary. May I ask if it’s a coach your driving or a minibus.

    At €350 cash you are not making prsi etc. contributions.

    If you have not been offered a payslip and he’s skirting around the issue you are a cash labourer.

    14 buses isn’t a small operator.

    Are you just being taken on for the 50% capacity rule which ends of dec 14th.

    No one gets a contract for school runs. ( sad but true)

    Bank holidays and Holidays generally aren’t paid even though it is a legal requirement for the 8%.

    Driving school buses is considered a part time casual labour job. It’s usually done by retired people as an additional income and will rarely be a primary income.


    If you are receiving any other state benefit then you are breaking all employee/employer rules (I’m not saying you are, I just know people that do and honestly it’s their own business) and that’s why you are getting cash.

    You won’t get state sick pay, stamps for unemployment benefit of PUP if needed .


    I hope that gives a little clarity.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    She will be paying a small amount of USC - approx €185 per annum - assuming an average €350 per week. However, if she is laid off during the summer she'd pay less USC, but would pay some unless her pay was under €13,000 per annum.

    IF schools closed due to Covid she'd be entitled to PUP per the below rates - Possibly €300.

    Weekly PUP rate for people who lose their employment as a result of the COVID-19 restrictions from 7 December 2021

    Average weekly earnings

    Personal rate€400 or over€350 €300 - €399.99€300€200 - €299.99€250€151.50 - €199.99 €203 Less than €151.50€150

    Re Cash Labourer - is what you mean a black market cash under the table arrangement? This would be illegal. And before someone jumps in 'This is the country, bhoy!' That won't stop her or you getting into a heap of trouble if involved in an accident. The bus owner may say you were self employed. Then whose insurance pays? I suspect the company insurance will still cover you, if the company owner has the bus covered under fleet insurance and you are over 25 and have a full licence, but I'd not like to be in that position.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users Posts: 635 ✭✭✭heretothere


    The only thing is to ask you employer for a payslip. Has he asked for your PPS number? If he is giving you cash in hand he will be paying for the tax.

    It does happen, I did my training in practice and had a few clients who gave their employees, cash in hand at the end of the week. I told them time and time again not to agree a figure into the hand as tax credits/bands change or can be transferred or worse the person might be on emergency tax. He still did it, and usually only gave me the weekly figures once a month. So it is possible to have a perfectly round figure for your net wages, the employer just pays whatever the tax is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,975 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    It's not a full time job though. Maybe 4 hours per day.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You'd expect fools like that to be very much the exception rather than the norm. And can you imagine them being in business long, especially someone that got the correct advice to change? If I worked for them I'd give my wife all my tax band and as much tax credits as possible (which is everything bar the personal tax credit). Would be the best employer ever.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ^^^ was meant to quote heretothere - can't fix it with edit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,471 ✭✭✭JustJoe7240


    Employers in the farming industry often quote net.


    Again more assumptions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 635 ✭✭✭heretothere


    The few clients I had that done that sort of thing were all tradesmen of some description. It never happened that one of the lads working for them transferred all their credit to their wife, but I did warn him it could happen. Did have the odd issue with emergency tax, but once the was sorted the employer would get the tax back anyway. He has been in business for decades. I suppose if one of the employees had transferred all his credits I'd have flagged it and he would have had to change the way he paid that employee



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You'd multiple clients that did this? I think this says more about your clients than small businesses in general. I highly doubt someone running 14 buses can afford to be blasé about the tax being paid.

    Never came across it when I worked in practice - But, we had an excellent tax department that would probably not allow a client to do that. It would be thanks, but you might want to take your business to X accountants.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think you're mixing up cash in hand for casual labour/self employed (sort out your own tax lad) that never gets reported to Revenue with proper employment.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,471 ✭✭✭JustJoe7240


    No I'm not, Some employers would quote salaries in net, but payslip would reflect gross.Unusual practice i know but it does happen.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Then it's one anecdote versus another. The farmers I know would be very shrewd and wouldn't leave their costs open to such. Why do you think this is common in farmers? I can understand some having seasonal/casual worers that may not always be remembered to be properly accounted for, but that's not what you're saying.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Also, more to the point. Which do you think is more common - an employer paying net and calculating the Gross and costs later or someone paying a round sum amount and not declaring?



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,669 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    The employer quotes a net rate to the employee and let's the accounts person sort out the books.

    Seriously, do you really think this might be the case? You think an employer who has admitted to struggling with managing payroll sufficiently to the point of not being able to provide a payslip is working out tax responsibilities on the fly?

    And stop making rural business owners out to be as if they can't comprehend or manage basic business practices. You think you're standing up for such people, you're doing them a disservice, and anyone else reading this who might be wondering what they are entitled to or what they are responsible for.



  • Registered Users Posts: 635 ✭✭✭heretothere


    Not many, but a few. There was nothing wrong with those clients.

    From the way you phrase it sounds like you didn't work in the tax department so how would you have come across it? I did my training in a mid-size firm in a large town but with a lot of rural clients. We didn't have a tax department but just did the payroll for our own book-keeping/ accounts clients.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,669 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    OP, once again, in a short space of time, you're working life is generating a lot of conversation. It's not normal to find oneself in situations so frequently that don't seem to be normal/best practice.

    Maybe consider trying to find a reputable, decent employer who you won't be wondering are they trying to mistreat you or pull a fast one and you can take the lead from your colleagues as to what is normal and acceptable pracitce. I do appreciate Covid might be impacting the jobs market right now, but you shouldn't need to stress so much over the employers obligations at work. And definitely not across successive companies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭TefalBrain


    I run a small bus company with a fleet of 8 buses based in Dublin OP. The going rate is 300 this school term for around the 20hrs max most drivers do about 15hrs driving per week with the kids on board. Most of my drivers get about 285-290 as you pay feck all tax on that if it's your only PAYE position. If you are getting paid 350 good for you but i'd still demand a payslip and confirm you are paying tax as otherwise you will be accumulating zero credits. You are also entitled to education sector workers social welfare for any school holidays including the summer break which you will not get without credits so over the course of the year you will actually be down money if paid cash into hand.

    If your employer is half decent they would have explained all of this to you in advance of taking up the position.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭Brid Hegarty


    He just rang me there to tell me that it's off again tomorrow due to the storm Barra issue. I asked him about the €350 and whether it was before or after tax. He didn't seem too sure but basically said that seeing as we initially agreed €300/wk (which we did), that anything extra he gives me will be out of his own pocket.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭Brid Hegarty


    I got the €350 because I did two extra evening runs (secondary schools) I had sat in on a few runs for training. Do you give your employees the 8%? What's the situation with bank holidays? And do your employees get a contract?

    One of the other drivers for this company told me that it's not standard in this industry to be holidays pay. And this might make sense to me giving that another company I interviewed with, said that the holidays and bank holidays pay is included in the aforementioned price. I suppose they kind of had to say that no matter what!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    Instead of bashing everyone that is telling you this happens, why not call a few rural accountants?


    They will tell you exactly what multiple people have told you here.

    They agree a net amount with someone and let the accountant work out where the gross is

    Accountants dealing with small rural businesses will have a good idea of what the gross should be.


    And the number that do this is a hell of a lot more than you would ever think.



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