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Vaccine Megathread No 2 - Read OP before posting

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    It's an infinitesimal number. People seem to assume allergies to vaccine ingredients is as common as allergies to peanuts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,092 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Yeah. That's bollocks.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,036 ✭✭✭✭astrofool




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You can be a sheep all you want. Ireland nearly has 100% coverage and the virus still spread as if there was none.

    The vaccine provides coverage to the person who took it, its a treatment, its not stopping the spread hence an unvaccinated person is not a risk to anyone bar the HSE or themselves.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A virus with a R0 of 5-6 and a current growth rate hovering about 1 is spreading as if there was no vaccine?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,092 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Ah will ya stop confusing people with facts 😜

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Posts: 8,647 [Deleted User]


    Oh dear, you are easily taken in by whatever tweets you read about that. Do you have a source or is it just something you read in a tweet?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,036 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    The COVID vaccines don't eliminate transmission. They do reduce transmission.

    A vaccine is not a treatment, it's a vaccine.

    What's worrying is that you're saying this to colleagues which is making you a misinformation source.

    And you went to calling people sheep very quickly, which hopefully means your colleagues don't listen to you or just pay you lip service.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭323


    Listen to yourself man. "vaccines don't eliminate transmission. They do reduce transmission.

    A vaccine is not a treatment, it's a vaccine" Do you even believe that anymore?

    What your saying does not even conform to the new WHO definition of a vaccine.

    “Follow the trend lines, not the headlines,”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    What's the WHO's new definition of a vaccine and how does the current covid vaccines not conform to it?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭323


    Sorry, My Bad: Got changes to definition of Pandemic and Vaccine mixed up.

    CDC not WHO changed the definition of a vaccine. WHO changed the definition of a pandemic.

    Earlier this year the CDC quietly changed the >20-year definition of a vaccine, so it no longer says that vaccines produce immunity.

    The WHO changed the definition of Pandemic, so it no longer says there are “enormous numbers of deaths and illnesses,” only that there is a new virus without known human immunity.

    Guess to feed the narrative "herd immunity" needs changed as currently the WHO defines herd immunity from vaccines as those that protect you from getting the disease and passing it on. This means by the WHO definition the shots will never provide herd immunity; how long will it take for the WHO to change the definition again?

    So vaccines no longer need to produce immunity!

    Pandemics no longer need to involve excessive death and illness. By the new definition the common cold and annual flu can be pandemics.

    “Follow the trend lines, not the headlines,”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    So because the new definition doesn't state it grants immunity, you take that to mean vaccines don't give you immunity?

    If you actually read why the update the definition you will see it's not as cloak and dagger as you are making it out.

    I believe Webster's changed the definition for a vaccine, but to include mRNA as a way to create an immune response.

    All this stuff has been done to death with social media using it as 'proof' vaccines don't work only for then to be debunked etc...




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,036 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    I wonder which site the headline "WHO changes definitions" came from, it's obviously a talking point somewhere but the spurious sources are never revealed by the OP (I'm guessing facebook?).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭Apogee




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,194 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    By the new definition the common cold and annual flu can be pandemics.

    They always have been, just not considered serious enough to warrant concern, save for when and if a more dangerous flu mutant shows up. I suppose it's a bit of a fudge as a definition which needed updating more along the lines of; a worldwide spread of an infectious agent causing, or likely to cause severe societal impacts. Most flus don't do that, some do. The coronavirus based common colds don't, covid 19 does.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 466 ✭✭Probes


    Is it a while yet for 40s+ to get boosters? I’m on holiday in 10 days so wondering if I’ll miss it…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭Apogee




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Haven't started calling 50-59 yet, so 40-49 likely after Xmas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Realistically sounds like quite a while before they bring up any general campaign for vaccinating over-5s. They'll be running boosters for 30+ and vulnerable 5-11 year olds and that'll bring us to March/April. 3-4 months is a long time in this pandemic.

    A GP near us is running an "open house" for vaccines for anyone 40+ to register before 18th December. A lot of those won't be eligible for a booster till January though, but it sounds like there's a certain amount of "forget about the age groups, just get boosters in arms" thing starting to ramp up as they approach the end of the boosters for the 60+ cohort.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    The exact same thing that happened with all the pauses in certain vaccines in certain ages groups etc....

    Risk of side effects vs risk from covid.

    Risk of side effects is fixed (x per million etc...) Risk of a person catching covid varies depending on how widespread it is out there.

    Common sense really.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,092 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The UK has flip-flopped on a lot of things.

    As for the rest of your post, rubbish would be the kindest thing I could say

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    @Pussyhands wrote:

    So the UK said it wasn't worth vaccinating kids and now they are. Nothing has changed so why have they changed?

    They said, "marginal gains". When an infection is widespread, "marginal" gains suddenly become significant.

    If you think that science is the art of providing black and white answers to complex questions, then I can see why this would be confusing. Science provides the data. It is up to human beings to turn that into answers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,235 ✭✭✭ceegee


    50-59 year olds are eligible for walk in clinics now at some centres



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    The UK were reporting some of the highest case numbers they have had when they decided not to vax kids at that time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭Apogee


    MVCs opened up officially to 50-59s from tomorrow.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,212 ✭✭✭jos28


    ^

    They haven't called the 60-69 age group yet. I'm in that group and none of my friend's have heard anything. One got a booster at a walk in centre today without an appointment. His friend went in a hour later and was told he needed an appointment ????



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,108 ✭✭✭blackcard


    I am getting my third shot tomorrow, 5 months and 3 days after my second shot. Speaking to others that I know, this seems to be the norm



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭corkie




    City Hall, Cork

    Booster vaccination clinics

    You must wait at least 5 months after your second vaccine dose before you can get your booster.

    If you had the single-dose Janssen vaccine, you must wait at least 3 months.

    Over 50 year olds

    • Saturday 11 December, 9am to 4pm
    • Sunday 12 December, 9am to 4pm

    healthcare workers over 30 years old only, till 16th (incl.)

    healthcare workers under 30 years old only on 17th

    Downside it is Moderna

    And the majority of Pharmacies (i checked) for alternative options are booked out till after Xmas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,614 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Michael Martin's comments about booster reluctance accounting for the missed appointments not aging well...

    THE HSE HAS advised people not to attend a walk-in Covid-19 booster clinic for those aged 50 to 69 this morning as more than 200 people queued to receive a jab.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/queues-booster-clinic-covid-5624556-Dec2021/

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,092 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    At the risk of going down a pointless rabbit hole of shíte, wtf is wrong with Moderna?

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,036 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Nothing really, the booster is a half dose (and some people like to stick with one type of vaccine). Some EU countries stopped using the full dose version on young people but it was more out of an abundance of caution and plentiful supply of Pfizer (which is a similar story for AZ and J&J only lesser so).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭corkie


    @Hotblack Desiato Don't think there is anything wrong with it myself, but some posters have been giving negative feedback on it.

    Maybe from adverse reactions to the first 2 doses?

    See 'Will you be taking a booster?' for peoples opinion on it?

    @Wibbs Seems to have researched well? Maybe he could chime in and answer?




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,162 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    An absolute mess .My friends all 65-69 have no appointments yet and still the HSE are saying its open for 50-59 . The queues are massive for walk ins and its freezing cold out there



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 348 ✭✭AulBiddy


    is there many people still waiting on their appointment in the over 60s? my dad was sent to a walk in clinic today by his GP and told him he’d have to have an appointment (he’s 68). He still hasn’t had any contact from the HSE and he’s worried that he’s gotten lost in the system.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    There does seem to be a determination from Donnelly anyway to head off any kind of criticism of the booster plan and to just keep announcing different age groups. What they and everyone else are forgetting is how carefully and slowly each specific group was managed through the original vaccination system, even when we had enough supplies. Now it is a veritable free for all and the system clearly can't cope with it and is in a mess anyway.

    They might take a little bit of flak for doing a pause older age groups to take care of the over 60s and any other vulnerable cohorts but it might help to get the system back on track.  TBH I'm not sure what the point of these walk-ins are at the moment as all they seem to do is encourage long queues. 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,092 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Don't think there is anything wrong with it myself, but some posters have been giving negative feedback on it.

    That could be said about anything.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,194 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I'd have zero opinion on it, save for my own Corkie. I wouldn't advise people one way or the other. I personally decided on a wait and see attitude to mRNA vaccines and went for the J&J and would choose the same as a booster.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 885 ✭✭✭keno-daytrader


    Nothing wrong with Moderna, just crazies posting crazy stuff on the interwebz. 😜

    For reference:

    For dose 1 and 2 Pfizer is .3mls

    For dose 1 and 2 Moderna is .5mls

    For dose 1 Janssen is .5mls

    Boosters are the same dosage with the exception of Moderna which is .25mls.

    Arguably the best booster after a Janssen is Moderna.


    "The trial’s preliminary data showed that people who had gotten the J&J vaccine followed by a Moderna booster had a 76-fold rise in antibodies in 15 days; those who got Pfizer saw a 35-fold increase; while those who got the J&J booster had only a four-fold increase."



    I listen to the science not the crazies 😁

    ☀️ 7.8kWp ⚡3.6kWp south, ⚡4.20kWp west



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭corkie


    @Wibbs

    By pot luck I was assigned Janssen in early June.

    To get the booster by Christmas, I will need to try the walk-in City Hall, Cork on Saturday.

    So If it is Moderna, so be it. Must Pharmacies I checked are booked out till after Xmas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭Apogee


    +191,452 from Wed 1st to Wed 8th. In previous weeks:

    +212,643 - 24 Nov to 1st Dec

    +184,618 - 17 Nov to 24 Nov




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭Apogee




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,212 ✭✭✭jos28


    4 of my friends in the 60-69 age group got texts today basically telling them to make their own arrangements. They won't be getting appointments so were advised to go to a vaccination centre/pharmacy/GP. Very strange considering the 50-59s are getting appointments



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 885 ✭✭✭keno-daytrader


    Thats the HSE and our Govt hard at work, to busy blaming the public and spinning all bad news into good news.

    Paul Reid gets 8000 euro every week, yes 8000 euros every week to lead this fiasco, 100's turned away today from walkin clinics, but M. Martin blaming the public for 50% no shows when its the HSE Windows 95 computer systems that cant talk to GP's or pharmacy's in real time?????

    Think for a minute of your own paycheck, imagine 8000 a week for getting on radio and RTE and spinning all bad news into good news, never mind the lies covered in spin?

    We are all fools for putting up with this.

    ☀️ 7.8kWp ⚡3.6kWp south, ⚡4.20kWp west



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Some interesting new research mentioned in the NY Times, still not peer reviewed but may cast some more light on the virus.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,216 ✭✭✭✭Busi_Girl08


    Mum got her Moderna booster yesterday in a very busy, disorganised with walk-ins and appointments (mum had an appointment) being managed.

    She got a phone call this morning from a very apologetic guy from the clinic telling her that she accidentally got a double-dose and wanted to check if she was ok. So far she's grand, just the usual sore arm. He told her to ring her GP straight away if she starts to feel anything.

    Are there any potential side effects from a double-dose?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The booster for Moderna is actually half the size of a regular dose. It's likely she was given a standard dose by mistake.

    She might feel a bit sicker but there's no increased risk of serious side effects.

    If you have any concerns safest option is consult your GP.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭completedit


    Can someone tell me what the vaccine is meant to achieve for the majority of the population? I'm currently sick with Covid and have to quarantine for 10 days; why did I bother getting a vaccine if I can contract the disease anyway and experience symptoms and also have to quarantine? I'm just not getting it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,447 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Because before you had the vaccine there was a greater risk of you ending up in hospital. Clogging up an already stretched hospital system.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,614 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    You're less likely to get infected, although that protection seems to wane faster (hence boosters) than the below protections.

    If you get infected, you are less likely to have a severe dose and more likely to clear the virus from your system faster - thereby making you less likely to spread it.

    If you get a severe dose requiring hospitalisation, you're less likely to end up in ICD or dead.

    And if by majority of the population you mean say people under 65 without underlying conditions, they can still end up in hospital with covid or dead, and the vaccine reduces this chance further.

    There's indication some of the population have a genetic vulnerability to covid, so even though you don't think you are vulnerable you could be... as noted in below article about the death of a healthy guy in his 40s from covid;

    People with variants on the chromosome 3 region alone were up to twice as likely to develop severe Covid as someone without that genetic mutation. Chromosome 3 mutations are carried in about 10% of people of European ancestry, meaning that such people have a 10% chance of being twice as susceptible to severe Covid infection.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/30/life-tragic-death-john-eyers-fitness-fanatic-who-refused-covid-vaccine?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,194 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    The vaccines reduce the risks of serious illness and death and have been very good at that, particularly in the old and vulnerable. They also reduce symptoms overall. The vaccinated are much less likely for the illness to "go to the chest" compared to the unvaccinated for example. The symptoms tend to stay in the head.

    The problem is it turned out they're less good at reducing transmission, though still do so and you're more likely to suffer breakthrough infections compared to other vaccines. Still, they are a very impressive bit of science getting them to the population so quickly. Espeically given that there has never been any effective vaccine against the corona family of viruses. Vaccines against stuff like flu are much easier to produce. Coronaviruses are little bastards by comparison(though a vaccine against HIV is an even bigger difficulty).

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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