United Ireland Poll - please vote

Actually, now that I think of it, if entering your own territory is legitimate as you keep claiming, we have been getting too upset about the whole 800 years of oppression thing. After all, we invited the Brits over here, and they thought it was their own territory - the British Isles - so we should just give it all up and rejoin the British Empire.

Francie, you have really hoisted yourself on your own petard now.

There is no groundswell of support for a united Ireland either, so how are they different?

Personally I think would have gotten to the 1998 position much quicker and with less bloodshed.

Reading the mindsets of the British, they didn't much care for Unionism and while they criminally ignored what they did in creating a sectarian bigoted statelet, they viewed it with distaste.

Had the Irish government actually meant that they were not going to idly stand by I think the talks around equality, parity of esteem would have been delivered and the Unionist veto stood up to sooner.

There was nothing in the GFA that could not have been delivered in 69.

Allowing the vacuum to form and the place to go up in flames was the mistake and I hold the two governments responsible for that.

Is that why SF have different policies North and South !

Nobody has said that Unionists had a democratic right to opt out of Ireland.

What is being said is that there is a Constitutional imperative to united the people of this island before uniting the territory. The uniting of the people hasn't happened making calls for a border poll mischief-making at best.

The only one who has called him a Shinner is you in that post.

For those that want to educate themselves on this matter, Newstalk Talking History did a podcast on NI and Partition recently.

TLDR:

Partition and Northern Ireland, in general, were barely mentioned in the Treaty debates and were not the big sticking points that led to the civil war. All the historians state it was a retrospective myth that was formed years later once the other sticking points (such as Oaths and what degree of independence the new Free State was to have) were ironed out...

The only debate on partition was the size of NI itself. Was it to be a 4, 6 or 9 country NI? However, Partition itself was an immovable rock that was going to happen. i.e it was inevitable.

Not one of them advocated war or invading the North or making the Ulster Volunteers stand down or any of that 'Call of Duty' type of History we see in this thread.

Ohhhh! That is a good one! I guess we must forget that NI Unionists have a voice.

Anyway, 10% of SF supporters in the North would vote to remain in the Union...

You know what would unite people? Making the kids go to the same schools instead of segregating them from as young as 2 or 3.... but you know, the DUP and SF don't want that.... bums on seats is more important.

Now you are getting to the nub of it. Did you fecking miss the long and detailed contribution where the historian talks about Irish nationalists FAILING to realise that partition might be permanent. The boys (mainly) and girls that went off to form FG and FF fucked up Mark, simple as. They had their eye on the prize they went on to swap power in for the next 100 years.

It was a tragic mistake. And can be legitimately criticised as such.

*Bew (or somebody else spouting the same stuff) has already been called out on the rubbish he talked about the civil war being primarily about the oath.

You've proved nothing.

What you have done is totally ignore the fact that nationalists leaders took their eye of the ball and didn't treat it as the threat to life and limb and stability that it most certainly turned out to be...to this very day.

Two year olds have the same ability to block things out.