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Kieran Creaven at it again..

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  • Registered Users Posts: 52,010 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    I haven’t read the entire thread and don’t know if this has been said already.

    I think we need new standards of sentencing in this country. Why should someone who abused little children and who didn’t help identify his victims get remission? Sex offenders and people who abuse children or the elderly and who didn’t admit or help the investigation should also be denied remission on their sentence. Let them serve the lot imo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    There's a pedophile living on Moate. He was convicted in the UK about 40 years ago for raping his own niece. I knew him reasonably well, he used to come into the hardware where I worked. It wasn't known at the time but I remember in the mid 2000s as I was catching a flight to the US I seen his face splashed all over the Sunday world.

    He served his time and came to Ireland. I didn't see him again until 7 years ago he came to where I worked. I ignored him and I could feel the hair stand on my skin, he eventually asked "can I get some assistance" I wanted to rip his throat out. I looked through him and walked off. Just gauls me he is so brazen to walk around with such confidence despite everyone knowing what he did.


    You rob a bank and go to jail. When you get out, you've served your time the clock is reset

    A pedophile is always a pedophile. You may have served your time, but you're still a fcuking pedophile



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    Paddy was found not guilty, that verdict didn't suit many many people



    If you asked me where our opposing views can be compromised on this subject I would say that if these people.were to perform this "sting" they would do so without the publication on Facebook live similar and any public identification of a suspect.

    By all means after a conviction publish what you wish, that would be more acceptable to me. But I can say with reasonable confidence it wouldnt suit these people. Because as already mentioned it's more clicks and likes they're after



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,385 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    It is possibly part of it but I have no problem with live streaming the sting. It keeps everyone honest during the whole process.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    You can keep people honest by recording it and giving it to the gardai and as I said publish after conviction. But the consequences of inappropriate publication ie, publishing the identity of someone not found guilty, or a mistaken identity for me is too great.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,870 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Imagine if the police live streamed the arrest of a suspected pervert on Facebook. There would be absolute uproar, it would be wrong on so many levels - and there would be a chance too that the man might be completely innocent.

    The lack of privacy is a huge issue here - people being identified on social media by vigilantes / thugs without having been charged or even investigated by police.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,072 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    These guys are vigilantes taking the law into their own hands. They dont give a **** about honesty.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,072 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    There would be uproar because it could potentially put a trial in jeopardy.

    If someone support paedo hunters and doesnt support the rule of law wheres the boundaries - why not just vigilantism for everything?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭reclose


    It was a very interesting but graphic article. I thought it was good the way they showed the professional work colleague side and the nasty side too.

    Shows you could easily be working alongside someone and have no idea what they are up to.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,385 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    How do you know this? There are loads of different groups with various motivations yet you have described them all as far right racist scumbags. Time for a bit of evidence to back up your claims. Let's start with the group that caught Creavan.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 41,072 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Its common sense. Vigilante groups are by their nature already taking the law into their own hands. The work they do is based on dishonestly.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,385 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig




  • Registered Users Posts: 41,072 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Maybe you could answer my question.

    If someone support paedo hunters and doesnt support the rule of law wheres the boundaries - why not just vigilantism for everything? Why have a police force at all?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,385 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    So I need to answer your questions but you won't answer mine?


    For the record I already answered what you are asking in a previous post on this thread.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16 ferpederine


    Those paedo hunters are absolute scumbags.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,385 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    We have had that earlier in the thread but no one can articulate why. The best we have come up with so far is that it is 'common sense'



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,639 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    In case you missed it earlier - scumbaggery of the highest order:

    "The Daemon Hunter vigilante who targeted Peter in Staffordshire used the slogan "Public against paedos". He pretended to be interested in his target on an adult dating site and they arranged to meet in a branch of Costa coffee. Peter thought he was meeting an 18-year-old, and insists he is not a paedophile or child groomer. Only when he was waiting in the cafe did a text come through saying "she" was 15 and that he immediately got up and left.

    It was then that Daemon Hunter accosted him in the street, accused him of trying to meet a 15-year-old for sex, and chased him through town filming him. Peter told the Guardian: "He said: 'I think we need to talk because you're a **** paedophile.' I said: 'What do you mean mate? She's 18, that's what I was told. I've just had a text message up there saying she's 15 and that's why I've walked away.' Next thing I know he got his phone up filming me, calling me a paedophile, asking her age. I was shocked. He started shouting I was a paedophile in the middle of town. I thought 'I am going to get a kicking here' so I just legged it."

    Within hours, the vigilante uploaded footage of the sting on to the internet along with Peter's mobile number. That night his phone was jammed with abusive texts and voicemails, which he said included death threats.

    So he fled north in his car, only returning when he thought the worst was over. Later, he said his house was hit with bricks and that his wife tried to kill herself with an overdose of pills. He was so scared he was reduced to hiding in a cupboard when the doorbell rang.

    Staffordshire police reviewed the evidence and concluded there was no case for any prosecution, but the damage was done. More than 5,000 people viewed the film and Peter has now moved to the other side of the country, cut off from family, friends and work."



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Somebody already linked to a story of them tarring a guy as a paedophile even though he wasn't.... I'm all for convicting paedophiles but convictions are not the focus of these groups. It's performance for social media.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,385 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    All of the groups or just a particular group. What about the group that caught Kieran Creavan. Are you glad they are there or not?

    Again there should be no space for these groups to operate but where the police are not doing the work then groups like this spring up. I would much rather the Gardai were on top of people like Creavan but they weren't. So that is the alternatives we have. Without these groups more people would be praying on our kids. With them there are less people. They are the lesser of 2 evils imo.

    Anyway I am just repeating the same points over and over again so will step out of the thread now.

    Osarusan - good example and at last someone can post something that backs up their point rather than just saying 'common knowledge'. No defending that case and I would hope than they were sued for defamation. Again see point above re greater good.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Orusan already posted that once in thread, and just in case you missed anything else, here's another post which states that 110 offenders are likely to get away without prosecution because of vigilantes.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think all such groups pose a danger due to the fact that they can equally endanger the possibility of a conviction. They lack any oversight. It's great that he got caught but this doesn't negate the fact that they could as easily mess up the possiblity of a conviction in another case.



  • Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Girl Geraldine


    A man of his age and married shouldn't have been meeting an 18 year old anyway.

    It might not be strictly legally peed but it is very solidly in the pervy predator zone. So I think he got what was coming to him and he certainly won't be texting any young girls again. What an attempt at deflecting, making himself out to be hard done by even he was going out to meet a teenage girl albeit 18 for s ex.

    He might have been going for 18 that time but what's to say it wouldn't be 17 the next time, or that he hasn't done so before and gone undetected.

    It is terrible about his wife but at the end of the day or was his actions that caused the situation to develop.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,072 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Sorry what?

    You are seriously saying he deserved to be harassed, abused, labelled a paedophile and sent death threats.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    And yet another post from this poster that proves we don't need or want vigilantes 🙄



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You missed it earlier when she told another poster he should report a chap to police because he thought he was weird and goes on holidays to Thailand!



  • Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Girl Geraldine


    So you mean to tell me that there is nothing wrong with a middle aged married man making arrangements online to meet up with an 18 year old girl for the purpose of engaging in sex acts?

    I don't think that is acceptable at all.

    Would you be so free and easy about it if it was your 18 year old daughter that was being groomed by a middle aged married man?

    I'd also add that not all 18 year old are mature and worldly enough to be wary of the tactics of older men. Many are but many too are not, and they will be vulnerable to that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭JJKC


    Absolutely nothing wrong with it whatsoever. You really have showed your true colours now, next you'll be branding men "pedos" for taking to 24 year old women



  • Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Girl Geraldine


    A middle aged man getting with an 18 year old girl?

    Jesus Christ I've heard it all now. That says an awfull lot more about you than me



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    An 18 year old woman can, purchase alcohol, vote, buy a property, live wherever they choose, and get married, plus much more! You know everything adults can, because they are adults.

    So I can't see how it's Anyone else's business who they have sex with.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    You know what the age of consent is, right?


    Doesn't matter whether it's right or wrong, whatever that means, it's legal.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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