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My Bungalow Bliss

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 794 ✭✭✭techman1


    "Just to clarify re the foundations.

    It is quite common what they found.

    I only scanned through that program but I believe it was a house with external wall build off a footing and internals built off the subfloor.

    This is very common for 70s and 80s builds and is a recipe for disaster."

    Why is it a disaster, the house has stood there since the 1970s and no issues? If it is quite common surely it is not a problem , there are no complaints of houses crumbling away like the mica ones in Donegal ?

    Many older houses were built throughout the country with little or no foundations and they are still standing. Surely if a bungalow has stood there for half a century and has no issues then it is ok, why the need to spend a fortune ripping out foundations

    Why is it a disaster?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,544 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Well I've dealt with a few of these from that era. It's a recipe for disaster as the very bad ones where poor underfloor fill was used have resulted in floor and internal walls sinking in use.

    The better ones where the floor is somewhat suitable to build off can fair ok but even so, additional loads from roof etc at certain positions can again lead to heavy cracking and failures.

    Even where all has faired ok for 40 years, when you go to open up these houses, you can run into bother as I certainly cannot sign off on building load bearing walls off an unknown slab. If you then cut the slab to install footing under new wall positions, you will have totally broken any load bearing capacity of the slab and may even cause structural failure at nearby walls that were built off it.

    You can walk yourself into a situation you have to either carry whole roof from external walls with only stud work inside or alternatively dig out everything inside of external walls and start again.

    Houses built with all walls brought up from footings give lots more options re alterations as steel beams can be run from most walls and in general you have multiple options to get to end result.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Is there any good youtube videos or channels to learn how houses are built?

    To be honest I didn't even know all walls were built down to the foundations. So the raft foundation goes in, then all walls are built and then floor is poured in?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    I wouldn't have thought so.

    I think there's a bunch of architects there giving opinions but they all eventually get one project each to fill their boots.

    Electric Ireland sponsor the program so maybe they get help with some assessments or small grants.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    I heard yer man last night say it was future proofed yet I doubt they installed cable for electric car charger.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,544 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    There are 2 traditional types of foundation.

    Raft or strip footings.

    Raft is basically where the clay is dug out, stone fill brought in and design concrete slab poured in top. All walls are built off this. Floor insulation plumbing and floor screed later installed inside.

    Strip footings are basically where the ground is dug out down to solid under each wall. Concrete foundation poured at solid. Blockwork built up to floor level, concrete sub floor poured and house build up from there with similar insulation' plumbing etc installed later.

    These 70s houses had a halfway house type setup. Just the outer rectangle of the house would be dug down to solid. Foundation under outer walls, Floor poured over varying standard of fill material then all internal walls built off floor. This would be an excellent system if the floor slab was supported on outer walls and slab designed to carry all loads from structure over. This was not the case. The floor typically buts up to external walls and is not supported off wall and these slabs were never designed and we're intended to be ground supported. If fill material is sub standard, the whole system falls down.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    So for a raft foundation you'd have hardcore on top, sand, radon barrier etc. Then sub floor and on top you have insulation and then floor screed? What level is the plumbing at?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,544 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Hardcore build up topped off with a smaller compacting stone. Sand blinding, radon barrier, concrete raft which is structural slab and subfloor. On top of that you would have insulation and concrete screed.

    Insulation could be 150mm or so. Plumbing can be hidden in insulation with under floor heating pipes on top of insulation within the floor screed.

    There are alot of newer construction methods now but of the traditional builds, this is how it is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭gooner99


    On offer (Unless the offer changed at a later date) was a 50% reduction of the architects fees. Architect's fees are usually a percentage of the build. I know some have fixed fees, but I believe most RIAI would work on percentage.Not sure if that's a percentage of initial budget, start of build budget, or final cost. Maybe someone here knows how that works?

    The other perk on offer was the hope that some suppliers/trades/specialists would cut a deal for TV exposure. I'm sure some might, but many probably wouldn't care less. Thoughts?

    Retrofit/SEAI grants were available, as they are available to anyone who qualifies in any case. Electric Ireland appear to have been brought on board at some point for the deep retrofit aspect which was good as not every part of Ireland has easy access to a company that organises full retrofits at present. Again it's possible that Electric Ireland offered something when they were brought on board as show sponsors.

    There was no mention of support from the producers for taking part. Again, this may have changed later.

    I think the show linked below (if produced) will make much better TV.

    https://m.independent.ie/life/dream-ofbuilding-your-own-home-eco-builder-harrison-gardnerwants-to-show-you-how-for-a-new-rte-series-40334313.html

    Post edited by gooner99 on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭pureirish




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭Stone Deaf 4evr


    If you're genuinely interested in general building principles of older houses, you should check out this book, it used to be on the leaving cert construction studies course, and indeed it was still relevant when I was in college (dating myself here, but circa 1997)

    https://www.wob.com/en-ie/books/r-chudley/construction-technology-volume-1/9780582420366?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIp66fuenY9AIVFeztCh1UTgXhEAQYAiABEgJc8_D_BwE#GOR003019474


    for just over a tenner, you cant go wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭myate


    Leave it with me & I'll see if I can get something going!



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    It's not a disaster. In reality if a house has stood that long it ain't going to move now. You will find bungalow all over Ireland with the same setup and have stood 50 years and will stand another 50 years. Look at people converting old houses and barns into modern houses. Do you think they will meet the exact spec that an engineer will have?

    One other method to help in this situation is what they done in week 1. Instead of filling a roof full of heavy tiles, then use lighter roofing so the weight of the roof is reduced.

    Please note I am not telling anyone to do or don't do any of the above. It's your own decision in the end



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    It's a bungalow. TO run a cable is extremely easy. Especially now as you can connect directly into the main box.

    When I installed it wasn't allowed so you just go straight up into the attic, run it across and out. Boom.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭gooner99




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 794 ✭✭✭techman1


    That was another annoying thing where did this "Boom!" Thing come from, every time they did anything the architects went "Boom" , this must be the new trendy jargon out of Silicon valley, you will hear Varadker and the politicians at it next, except for Sinn Fein they could never go "Boom"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,310 ✭✭✭monseiur


    I assumed the house was built in accordance with plans submitted to the Co. Council for planning, see plans on post no. 19 ''Proposed attic level plan drawing no. 2002/OTD/PL/102 '' It does not show a bathroom in attic space....or maybe I need to go to Specsavers again!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    Why wouldn't they install a cable for a car charger? Not that difficult, and handy extra for the electrician.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    Houses quite often change some interior designs after plans are submitted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    I sold cars for about 2 months in my youth.

    Lesson number one in my training was this.

    Ask the client what is their budget.

    Client says €5000.

    You write that down and as you are writing you say "Up to?"

    Client 9 times out of 10 will say a higher number when put on the spot like that.

    That is now your starting budget.

    Pretty sure thats how they all work.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,700 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Like others I couldnt believe that finished house ended up costing 625k, they would have been better off knocking it and starting afresh.

    The opaque window in the bathroom to get light into the hall was also another head scratcher. There is a solution to dark hallways using solar light tubes which connect the roof and bring light down inside a reflective tube. Its used on the continent in bathrooms with no windows. Not sure why they didnt go for that instead.

    Id wonder about that 70k on the foundations. The house didnt seem to be falling down, surely the engineer tested the foundations before they began the build and would have told them of forthcoming costs if they went for underfloor heating? If they didnt then why have an engineer in the first place.

    I felt sorry for the couple, it really was like boiling frog syndrome as the costs went up and up. Paying 325k for an uninhabitable small bungalow was insane as well to begin with. But it just got worse for them the further they got in. Plus Hugh Wallace and his stupid grin sneering at them, he is insufferable.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,959 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    No mention of a radon barrier, despite the granite below. Now, just as a public information exercise to let such a barrier being essential over granite was advised, and testing for radon should be a matter of course in such a site (and probably in many areas in Ireland).

    And no mention of a structural engineer, just a discovery of no foundations which closed the site. Now the lack of foundations might have been known, but the owner complained at one stage having a €400k hole in the ground, and a €70 grand rise in cost.

    Now I am just a viewer looking at a programme where, in the first two episodes, the original house is reduced to the basic four walls with everything else demolished, and the original budget exceeded by €200 grand. That is enough for me to question the relevance to Jack Fitzsimons original design criteria of simple low cost housing. If fact the result, while looking very good, was extremely expensive for what the owner got. It was not as if the money did not matter to the owners.



  • Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭doc22


    All I could think of is where did they find all that money on first home



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,373 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    660k+ seems crazy but the views are amazing.

    The house felt a bit cold to me but hey guess they will make it more feel like a home when they settle in.

    Nice couple I have to say, fair play to the guy for working so hard to try and pay the bills just as well he has the skillset to pickup extra work.


    After these two episodes, you can really see the appeal of a new build!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 120 ✭✭madeiracake


    I think concrete floors are going to be a disaster for the young kids. No give in them when they fall and bang their heads. Same with the granite thing they had. They look like designer houses alright very cold and stark. And having everyone looking straight into your house doesn't give much privacy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭doc22


    The design wasn't to my taste either

    Privacy wise the massive window won't help, funny that wasn't enough natural light they had to tear up the ceiling too. And I'd much prefer a sensor in the hall for light than for the semi-transparent glass bathroom wall.....

    The vast majority of normal people wouldn't accept/afford architects notions/ideas, even Daniel O' Donnell put Bannon in his place



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Pat Mustard must have been up to his old tricks again...




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Am I right in saying there was no blinds in the bedroom windows?

    I thought I didn't see any while watching and this photo looks like there's none either




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    I'm here thinking being so close to a lake will eventually be a liability rather than an asset.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,035 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    Regarding the appeal of a new build.

    I don't think there was much wrong with the bungalows to begin with. Both bungalows ended up costing at least double what they originally paid for, however they made extremely expensive choices.

    They don't need full length windows, as windows go, a full length one is the most expensive option. They all had doors too again running up the cost. With children putting external doors in bedrooms is an absolutely bonkers idea but yet that's what they did for both!

    Getting bespoke hall doors etc all run up the cost.

    How much extra did the internal bathroom window cost instead of just leaving it as a wall.

    While underfloor heating is nice to have I don't think I'd be arsed digging up the floor to get it. Is it even necessary if you are putting in triple glaze windows and upgrading insulation. I get that radiators are not the prettiest things in the world there are some nice options on the market now.

    There's an awful lot of "frilly extras" that are unnecessary.

    Buying an older house you will have some sunk costs, upgrading electrics, plumbing and insulation for example, but you don't need to go down the bespoke route for everything else.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭gooner99


    Looking at the plan for house 2 I see there are four bedrooms. I think it would have been more practical to have three bedrooms and use the extra space for a utility and storage. I wonder if bedroom three was used for this purpose in the end as it houses the washer dryer. You'd need a fair bit of space for the heating system.





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭gooner99


    House number three is a 1990s bungalow in Donegal overlooking the sea, which will become a weekend home.




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,959 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The underfloor heating added €70 grand to the build cost. If it saved €2 grand a year, it would take 35 years to pay back, and that is not taking into account the interest costs.

    Now, they could have put solar PV panels on the roof which would have a pay back of a decade or so.

    A porch would save a huge amount of heat loss, and stop visitors coming in directly into the only living space.

    There are so many design failures in a €630 grand house.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,562 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    650k for 7 rooms, two being a bathroom/toilet.

    Thats 93k per room !🤬

    Wheres the utility room, home office, second living room, garage ?

    For 650k I'd be expecting a minimum of 14 rooms.

    Lunatics



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 794 ✭✭✭techman1


    Why don't "bungalow bliss" do one of the mica affected houses in Donegal, sure they basically demolish the bungalows anyway. It would also shine a light into the corruption in the construction industry and the complete ineptitude of the authorities in stopping this in time. Are 1990s era houses a bit young for this they are not really bungalows , start getting into the McMansion territory now



  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭purpleshoe


    I thought the house from week 1 is great. Total spend by the couple was 480K (150k for the house and 330k for the renovation). Possibly some better value could have been got in some areas but overall it looked like a very well put together house. Also to flag, there is a bath in that house. You can see it in the photos linked in older posts.

    On the other hand, the house from week 2 is a big misstep in my opinion. Total spend by the couple was 637k (325k for the house and 312k for the renovation). I really hope that the purchase price of 325k included the field to the front of it. Crazy money to have spent if the field is not included. As others have pointed out the house is missing some real needed functionality to align with the real world of day-to-day living, and stepping straight into Kitchen/Lounge is a disaster.

    I cannot understand what the Architect was thinking? Such poor decisions and solutions.

    Overall, the key professions (Architect/PM/Structural Eng/Builder) who worked on the house should be embarrassed with the end result. Did they not lean on their professional experience, and work together to maximise the couples return on investment? Maybe unfair to say? But to some extent, it comes across that the couple were taken advantage of.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,035 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    Oh I think the couples were completely taken advantage of.

    I question the ethics of the show when someone says they are working 4 Jobs in order to pay for it.....at what point do you say this isn't sustainable and we need to scale it back.

    To me it comes across that the architects are pushing their own agenda and want statement pieces for their portfolio.

    I don't think Hugh has anyone's best interest at heart bar his own. Wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.

    There's absolutely no way I'd hire any one featured so far.

    Where as I'd happily hire the Roisin/Peter team from Home Rescue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,700 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Yeah Id agree it seemed like they were taken advantage of. I found the final scenes with Wallace and the architects going on about what a great house it was a bit uncomfortable when it was set against the 637k it cost for just 7 rooms. Im familiar with that area the house is in (Ballyknockan) and they could have bought a house locally that was almost twice the size for similar money. They actually got royally ripped off here and they had to endure a ton of stress in doing so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 120 ✭✭madeiracake


    They saddled the second couple with huge debt and then walked off into the sunset. I'd say in a few years they will really regret a lot of the choices made. Even at the end when the wife was talking about more kids, the husband looked stressed at the thoughts. Working 4 jobs to try and pay for it as it is. As kids get older they need space and privacy, none of that for anyone in those houses. It would be fine as a holiday house but not a family home. They should have made a playroom in the attic and not that high ceiling.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,959 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Well, the choice of underfloor heating was not costed properly (because there were no proper foundations) and added €70 grand to the bill. Now going for BER of A would have been a better decision, as no matter how efficient the underfloor heating was, it would have a pay back measured in many decades.

    Why did they go got a domed ceiling in the only living room? They could not subsequently expand into the attic - even for storage.

    Why did they have that living room open directly to the outside? Even a modest porch would have been better. Imagine opening the front door on a windy stormy night with a howling gale coming directly up the valley.

    I am sure there are many more - including the ever mounting bills that had the owners petrified and stressed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,700 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Yeah this one, it is also in the village of Ballyknockan and was put up for sale last summer.

    4 bed, 3 baths, 334sqm which includes a granny flat and is sitting on 0.3 of an acre. Completely modernsed and in move in condition. Sold in October this year for 690k. Also has great lake views and is about three times the size of the uninhabitable bungalow that they bought. Compared to them spending 637k on what they got there is no comparison.

    If they had of known that the end cost to them was going to be 637k for a small bungalow with no porch, no utility room, no home office and so on they would have been much better just going out and buying something on the market that was much bigger and in move in condition. The above has triple the space, a big garden and doesnt need any significant work and also has the lake views they wanted.

    I think what they did was complete folly, they overpaid for the house in the first place, perhaps due to getting sucked into a bidding war. But that was only the start of their problems, the build went way, way beyond their budget. For what they got compared to what they could have got I think they got a very poor deal.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,700 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Yeah it is really nice and while 690k is a fair wedge of cash it doesnt need any work and has loads of space.

    Just as a comparison I think theirs was 120sqm at 637k so the cost per square metre was 5,309

    With the above house it is 344sqm for 690k so the cost per square metre was 2,005. And thats for a finished house you can move into straight away without the 18 months of trouble that they had.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,035 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    Jesus Christ I'm so jealous!!!

    The red rug would have to go that's absolutely it 😂😂 the rest of the house is fabulous. I wouldn't have window presses in the utility as seeing everything folded there higgidly piggidly would drive me spare!

    The washing machine in the bathroom of the granny flat also wouldn't be something I'd have .....but we're splitting hairs here.....the house is outstanding especially for that price!



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Agreed. They got screwed. Bungalow Bliss portrays itself as informative, but is nothing more than entertainment, which doesnt work without a supply of 'suckers' around which to build the show



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭Viscount Aggro


    They have all overpaid.

    Nearby theres a self build house, inside an agricultural building. Windows at back and roof panels. FTW.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    The underfloor heating alone didn't cost an extra €70,000 surely? And it's not like you don't get an idea of the cost beforehand, and can then decide to not go with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    No comparison there really, apart from some questionable interior design choices. Starting to feel sorry for them now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭purpleshoe


    I am not a builder and I have limited knowledge so I am very much open to correction on below.

    Based on what I saw, and the comments here, they dug up a raft foundation. Concrete shown in shots as the mini digger dug up the floor looked very thick. They then proceeded on TV to ignore that detail and present it as the house never having foundations. That the internal walls were built on air, and that a decision made 40 years ago when the house was first been built had come back to bite everyone.

    The only reason the floor was taken up in the first place was to facilitate underfloor heating. As the house was built on a raft, digging up the floor should never have happened without a full understanding of the consequences. Chasing the floor and putting in contemporary rads would probably have been the better call. Part of that 70k was rectifying the mistake of pulling up the raft foundation.

    If I am correct in what I am saying, the professionals involved possibly would have known that a mistake had been made during the refurb.



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