General British politics discussion thread

Not at all, it is safe to assume that those at that party are definitely on such a record. Everyone who is on the record, should be asked were they at it.

How about asking people who arrived after normal working hours, and/or who left at an unusually late hour? You know, standard non-hysterical ways of checking up on something by speaking with the most likely group first.

Ah, I get it, you must not have heard any of the stories around this.

Here are some. While the people in Downing Street were having a party which was in direct contravention of the guidance given by the Government, members of the public were doing their best to adhere to that guidance. People were saying goodbye to their dying parents over the phone, people were exchanging christmas gifts with their kids in car parks, people were spending all their time with zero human contact, people were cancelling visits and get togethers, all because the government said it was needed to keep people safe, to protect the NHS and so on.

And people who tried to do what was going on in Downing Street and were caught doing so, were charged and fined for doing so. Two people were fined 10,000 each for organising such gatherings.

Not trying to find out what went on (and coming up with pathetic excuses to not do so as the Met has done) is a massive kick in the face of people who have struggled massively, and continue to struggle. And not only that, but it negates entirely any future messaging from the Government before it is even made. And the final insult on this diabolical situation is the absolute apathy those in power, and in Downing Street have for peoples suffering as they try to lie blatantly to ensure they aren't held responsible, and even after the emergence of the video where they joked about how to manage the story were it to emerge, they still try to save their own skins.

Johnson, and the UK Government, and the Tory party have shown without question the disdain in which they hold the public, the NHS and the offices they hold. From handing Covid PPE contracts to friends who were unable to deliver adequately leading to frontline staff having to put themselves at risk, to thinking clapping for staff and an effective pay cut was an appropriate reward for the efforts of these workers. Or portraying immigrants, many of who work in the NHS as a problem to be reduced and removed while the NHS creaked under resource issues. Or Boris setting such a bad example when it comes to mask wearing or interacting with others. This period will be looked on with shame by people in the future as to just what has gone on.

It's not just about the Christmas party, it's about how they have demonstrated how little respect they have for those who have suffered so much and done so much only to be met with insult and ignorance by people who are literally partying as normal. We've seen such a slide in standards and morals expected of elected officials over recent years. Wanting to call attention to this and correct it isn't a witch-hunt, it's a necessity.

Laura Kuenssberg naming the No 10 Director of Comms as the potential culprit on Twitter just now.

considering there is video evidence of "Handy Hancock" grabbing his aide by the ass in his own office, how is there not a video of this party/non party which would show exactly who was or wasnt there ?

And if this is their justification for saying 'this wasn't a party as such' there's no way it's going to fly. The quantities of alcohol required to lubricate such a 'gathering' don't just suddently materialise at the heart of what is essentialy an office complex.

Also, the timing tells us it 'must' have been a pre-planned Christmas party. Seven days before Christmas Day : it couldn't have been anything but a Christmas party and everyone at it knew they were attending one.

Doors in everything from small businesses or offices to schools, hospitals and gyms have various levels of access nearly as a defacto design principle more and more now these days. It's most definitely not over the top given the security, flexibility and traceability it provides. And it isn't actually that expensive in terms of installation costs.

That aside, the focus isn't on the method of determining who was there. That's kinda deflection really. The focus should be on finding out the exact details as soon as possible, whatever the method.

Look, I know we're all speculating here, but this is a very old building with big solid walls between the rooms, not a modern office block where every floor is open-plan and uses thin partitions to create "rooms". There is no way that once someone has access to a specific wing of the building that they can roam freely without having to unlock any doors. It may certainly be the case in some instances that some doors are left open between (say) the PM's office and an adjoining meeting room.

At the very least from a security perspective, if an attacker was to breach the building the first thing you would do is lock the internal doors. And in order for doors to be locked, they need to be closed. So most of the doors would be closed, most of the time, and would require a swipe card to access.

All that aside, it would still be very easy to produce a report of who was in the building at (say) 10pm that evening, and ask all of those individuals to account for their presence. It's a busy office no doubt, but even politics sleeps overnight. There'd be a minimal number of people present after 9pm unless there was something specific going on.

Given the uk has a ministerial code system in which the pm is the ultimate arbiter, I wouldn't be so sure this is what will sink Boris Johnson, but boy, is he digging some hole for himself. If Lord Geidt does resign, as speculated by the telegraph, then that will be two standards commissioners gone within the space of a year, after the previous guy quit in the wake of the Patel bullying scandal. To lose one standards commissioner might be unfortunate etc

Diana Abbot and Alan Johnson made regular appearances on Neil's BBC 2 show as well, so I don't know why you'd describe Portillo's appearances particularly as 'cozy'.

Abbot and Johnson were sitting MP's. You'd expect them to be treated differently.

On the 'don't they have security cameras like in Hancocks office' angle... Could be that they put bin bags on them after episode?

I think Starmer and Labour are happy to leave Johnson there.

They want to take down the Tories, not just Johnson

Labour have a way better chance against Johnson over a blank slate look at Corbyn vs May. He was a leader who didn't appeal to the centre ground but drove May into a DUP coalition. Starmer could definitely beat an unpopular Tory leader but maybe not a neutral one