New handicap system

Personally I'm saddened to see casual rounds being monetized by clubs. I think it takes away from genuine golfers who want to lower their handicap but feel they are already paying enough in membership fees. Not surprised to see 9 hole scores not being supported. Why pay money for half a round of golf ? Getting a quick 9 in for your handicap after work in the evening is great for lads who are busy with families at the weekend. Paying for the privilege when you already pay a lot is tough enough.

My club doesnt charge for them. I'm on the handicaps committee and have personally taken ownership of managing casual rounds. It doesnt take up too much of my time and I enjoy it. I know there are some on the main committee who would like to charge for them but I keep putting them off it. I think it's good that we encourage our members to get as many counting rounds in as they can and competitions have not suffered at all. Year on year, the number of people entering club competitions at the weekend have gone up (increased membership and members who had handicaps they couldnt play to before, now being competitive have played a part for sure).

In every club, and life in general, there are a couple of rotten eggs that ruin it for everyone else but the 99% shouldn't suffer just because you're trying to stop the 1%. That's just not fair on the genuine people.

my playing partner was 5 over off 20+ handicap purely because he wasnt using his tee shots(the winner off 30 handicap lost 6 balls off the tee so wouldn't have featured in a singles event)

im led to believe our presidents & captains winner is about to get a big end of yr cut along with a few other of our notable bandits.

the €5 charge has absolutely put a stop to the cheats building their handicap. the number of casual returned since it was brought in is miniscule. not one 9 hole scores returned

the was is a good system for those of us who play honestly.

sadly the cheats will always cheat.

but I do believe that the €5 will prohibit the bandits. of it doesn't just up the fee to €50 per casual score returned

Initially I was thinking that's a lot of long par 4s but when I checked my own course of the tips there are 8 400+ yard par 4s which genuinely surprised me. Carlow is generally firm and fast in the summer so plenty of run out and a lot of the greens allow you to land a ball short and still roll on the green. In my experience of these holes only a poor tee shot on the 7th (455yds - index 1) or not catching the slope on the 14th (476yds - Index 5) will mean you aren't getting there in 2 but other than that they're all manageable assuming you're not in trouble off the tee. I'd carry around 230-250 typically though which is slightly above average I think. 180 yards into a par 4 regularly would not be fun I agree, that's at least a 5i for most if not a 3/4iron which is a tough shot for even a single digit handicap I would say. In winter I find everything is that bit shorter with the cold and lack of run out which can make holes feel like a slog. I don't really play winter golf for scoring though, just purely to keep my swing in some sort of shape. Wouldn't see the appeal of even a scramble in this weather to be honest.

Interesting topic on length of par 4s though, would be interested to see what the average par 4 lengths are in Ireland. Off the tips probably not the best method of comparison though.

It's in the WHS rules of handicapping. Delegated to national associations and can be delegated from them to regional associations or golf clubs. The recommended allowances are based on medium field sizes, so can be amended. Also worth noting that many formats are not recognised formats for handicap competitions in this country, so until they are, allowances can be changed without any issue.

Not sure why they would tbh. The 95% adjustment is there to level the playing field for handicap indexes of 10 and under. Taking it away would make no change to their playing handicaps but give an extra shot or more back to players over 10.

And what does all this mean for an average Joe Soap like me who only wants to play a game?

Or, don't worry too much about the calculation stuff. The Golf Ireland app will tell you your handicap if you input any course for casual rounds...or if you're playing a comp your card will tell you what to play off that day 😉

I was thinking about the guys who game the system essentially - putting in casual rounds to buff up their handicaps. I wonder would it be an idea to limit the number of casual rounds someone can submit?

Ultimately, the reason to include the casual rounds is to keep the handicaps current. My next door neighbour back home used to play every Saturday morning because it suited him. It meant he was playing 50 times a year but virtually never in competition, so he had no counting rounds, but was a regular golfer. He's exactly the guy you want to submit casual scores. I never heard of him popping up to win the captains or anything, he was an honest guy. The handicap system just didn't really cater for him. But encouraging the submitting of casual scores will help to keep handicaps more relevant to the players in general.

But now the stories of fellas winning the club majors with 50 points or so all tend to be guys who had reputations as bandits under the old system, who should probably be single figures but instead are around the 18 mark. And usually lads who are playing every Sunday. If you had a limit on the number of casual scores they (or anyone) could submit, you might go a long way to solving the problem of them gaining an extra 5 shots before the club major. The rule could be something like, if you have 15 comp scores in the last 12 months, you can have a max of 5 casual scores in your 20 counting ones for handicap. That way if they tank 5 casual round scores, it'll be the best 8 of their last 15 comps. They might still be able to get an extra shot or two, but you couldn't build the handicap in the same way. You could even do a simple max of 5 casual scores can be used per calendar year. Although in the case of someone like my neighbour I mentioned above, that would mean that on the 1st January, he'd have 5 scores from November / December each year and a couple of comp scores making up his handicap. I think the max of 5 if you have 15 comp scores would be the better way.

Of course a big part of the problem is that it's a global system and it doesn't sound like these guys are a global problem. So if Ireland is 1% of the global golfing population and these guys are 0.1% of our golfing population, are you looking to tweak the system to cater for 0.001% of golfers who are acting the bollocks?

I’ve played in a couple of scrambles. thankfully common sense prevailed and we just used 10% of the combined

Where’s the common sense in using a format that is heavily biased towards low handicap players?

If h/cap secs are doing their job, it's very easy to see if players are gaming the system with general play rounds. The problem with limiting the numbers is something I pointed out a while ago, which is the fact that a lot of five-day members of clubs are putting in GP scores because they don't have the same access to competitions as full members.

which 10th round would it use? random or do you pick? doesn't make much sense really

Nothing is going to stop someone who wants to manipulate their handicap other than manual intervention and removing them when it is obvious

Why break the system for most to try and stop a few lads cheating

Better to have most on a fairer and more current handicap

That wasn't why the beginner didn't want to play on a Sunday. He felt under pressure in the comps, so is going to play in them when he's a better golfer. I said playing in them will make him a better golfer. Also, I don't see why he was self conscious playing with a randomer on a Sunday but not a Saturday.

And I've seen countless times people fairly openly say that higher handicaps shouldn't be entitled to win the club majors, or even club competitions. I'm certainly not arguing that. But there are a very small number of people who cheat the system. Generally not the high handicappers as far as I can see anyway. They're the ones I'm thinking of when I suggest putting limitations on the number of casual scores that can be used to calculate a handicap. I'm even specifically targeting people who play in a lot of comps, so if someone doesn't play in comps for whatever reason they can still maintain a handicap.

Yeah if my club started charging for submitting casual rounds I'd stop submitting them. Generally every round I play I submit on the app, whether it's 9 or 18 at home or playing away at a mates club. My three best rounds in my 8 counting rounds are casuals. If I was being asked to pay a fiver on top of membership fees just to work on lowering my handicap when that was one of the best benefits from WHS it would leave a bad taste in the mouth.

To win we would have needed 18 birdies. I don't think that kind of scoring is achievable and teams getting 5 extra shots year on year shows it's heavily weighted to suit teams of high men now.