Interesting Stuff Thread

Hotblack Desiato · 20-08-2021 1:33am

Atheists do have positive beliefs

They just can't agree among themselves what those beliefs are 😄

It is unsurprising that it is only a small splinter of Christianity and a small splinter of Islam which have any interest in promoting secularism; in the case of each group it's self-interest (whereas with AI it's pure altruism, natch 😉 )

There again, if you want to topple the catholic monolith you have to build a coalition. Many of those involved in the repeal the 8th campaign detest SF and saw that party's new-found pro-choice stance as complete opportunism, but that had to be swallowed to achieve the greater goal. Similarly, perhaps AI's marriage of convenience makes it somewhat harder for theists to dismiss AI out of hand as a bunch of anti-theist cranks. Though they probably will, anyway...

smacl · 20-08-2021 9:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117778881#Comment_117778881

Agreed, ten out of ten to AI for pragmatism. In terms of effective promotion of secularism combined with inclusivity, I think Educate Together have achieved more concrete results than anyone else out there. The barney AI had with them over multi-denominational / non-denominational also left me very unimpressed and had me wondering how much of it stemmed from earlier possible collaborations falling though. I think that AI certainly have a positive and coherent belief system but this is not something that could be said about atheism in general. Secularism is a banner I'd have no problem rallying under, grouping atheists seems about as sensible as cat herding.

What I find interesting are the distinct approaches taken by ET and AI here. AI is attacking the problem head on by taking on the RCC and establishment on secular issues, ET is focussing on delivering the preferred solution while circumventing them while at the same growing to a size where they're starting to gain some considerable political clout. Both approaches have their merits and no doubt compliment one another. I've no doubt that grip the RCC has had on education, and (ab)used as a means to somewhat stifle its own decline in this country, will falter soon enough. My position is very much that diversity of religious beliefs and cultures should be celebrated within both society as a whole and also within our schools as part of that, and that none of us should be making any demands on the other as to what they should or should not believe.

Hotblack Desiato · 20-08-2021 1:14pm

Agreed, especially about what ET have acheived, but education isn't the only area where church(es) have influence in the affairs of state.

What worries me is that politicians keep talking about a diversity of schools, as if extending our system of religious, class and gender segregation into ever finer differentiated cohorts is the way to go. What we need is diversity, tolerance and equality within schools.

Hotblack Desiato · 30-08-2021 7:05pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/newslens/2021/0827/1243289-harvard-chaplain/

America's prestigious Harvard University, founded by Puritan settlers almost 400 years ago, has a new chief chaplain - and he doesn't believe in God.

Greg Epstein, 44, took up the role this week, becoming the first atheist elected president of Harvard's organization of chaplains.

"I'm obliged and honored," he wrote on Twitter.

Mr Epstein has been Harvard's humanist chaplain since 2005 and is the author of the bestselling book "Good Without God: What a Billion Nonreligious People Do Believe".

He will lead a group of more than 40 chaplains who represent some twenty different religions and beliefs including Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism and Buddhism.

Hotblack Desiato · 07-09-2021 12:51am

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/58463792

39 years in a coma / vegetative state is a pretty horrifying prospect.

robindch · 07-09-2021 9:13am

😕

.

Hotblack Desiato · 28-09-2021 9:53pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/newslens/2021/0928/1249416-glastonbury/

Environmentally damaging levels of illegal drugs have been found in the river running through the Glastonbury Festival site in England, scientists said.

Researchers discovered that during the festival, levels of MDMA and cocaine in the water were so high it could be harming wildlife further downstream, including rare populations of eels.

All together now...

"Eels'r'Goode, Eels'r'Goode,

It's Eben-eels'r'Goode"

robindch · 01-10-2021 10:58am

In a change from our usual programming, the Vatican is doing something useful - in this case, and after what seems like a significant delay, an ad campaign supporting vaccines:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY5rwTnJF0U

It's also been suggested that the Vatican has requested all employees to vaccinate themselves, or forgo their salary:

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/public-global-health/574338-vatican-ordering-all-employees-to-be-vaccinated-or

Hotblack Desiato · 01-10-2021 2:04pm

Y'know, if he'd just pray harder god would stop the virus and we wouldn't need all those vaccines.

Hotblack Desiato · 07-10-2021 7:40pm

Hopefully this unfortunate case will put an end to team-building bullshít once and for all.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/man-43-sues-over-injuries-sustained-in-500ft-fall-down-mountain-1.4694264

robindch · 08-10-2021 11:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990248#Comment_117990248

I've hiked down that part of the descent, known for obvious reasons as the zig-zag, and quite honestly, in the gale-force winds which were whistling up and over the ridge's edge at the time, the first bit of the trail from the ridgetop - circled below, tracking downhill from right to left at about 10 degrees, and presumably, the bit where the victim fell from - was so bloody dangerous that I did the straight bit on my hands and knees to avoid being blown off my feet. That said, it was still way safer than going back down the bloody Devil's Ladder. A grand day out apart from them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cnoc_na_Toinne

Eastern_Ridge_Section_of_the_MacGillycuddy's_Reeks.jpg

Hotblack Desiato · 08-10-2021 7:52pm

Mmm. As Ross O'Carroll-Kelly would say, "Yeah, but no."

See you in the pub after, team!

smacl · 13-10-2021 1:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992666#Comment_117992666

Also done both routes on a few occasions and wouldn't really think they're a great choice for a novice hiker nor a reluctant one. Much as I love hill walking, it all sounds rather negligent by both the organisers and any paid guide. Keeping everybody safe is a minimum requirement in these circumstances. What's annoying is that we're seeing many adventure sport activity centres in this country being closed down because of either unavailable or prohibitively expensive insurance. Cases such as this cause even more damage in this context.

Hotblack Desiato · 19-10-2021 10:18am

This is a bit nsfw but fair play to whoever created it. Inspired by islamic art, possibly 😁

Tessellation F___ 90 degrees rotational symmetry - animation.gif

robindch · 19-10-2021 3:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118040926#Comment_118040926

Could be inspired by Douglas Hofstadter too - check out his splendidly obtuse Metamagical Themas and Le Ton Beau de Marot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamagical_Themas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Ton_beau_de_Marot

Hotblack Desiato · 09-11-2021 7:47pm

One of the greatest, ehh, "characters" Ireland has ever seen now knows whether there is a Hell.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/1109/1258754-former-anglo-irish-bank-ceo-sean-fitzpatrick-dies/

smacl · 09-11-2021 7:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118143131#Comment_118143131

Just re-listened to Dante's Inferno very recently on audiobook. Given usurers in general are placed in the lowest part of the seventh circle, one can only wonder where Dante might have imagined questionably corrupt ones should go. As an atheist however, I reckon he got away with whatever misdeeds he may or may not have committed.

robindch · 09-11-2021 9:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118143183#Comment_118143183

I'd like to think he ended up for all eternity, locked in the tiniest and shittiest apartment his corrupt bank financed.

On the topic of Dante's Inferno, has anybody laid their head around Armando Iannucci's recently-released Pandemonium - a mock epic poem in the style of Milton's Paradise Lost (which Iannucci studied at PhD level many years ago)?

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/sep/25/armando-iannuccis-epic-covid-poem-its-my-emotional-response-to-the-past-18-months

Pandemonium

Say, heaving Muse, what catalogue of restraints

And luckless lockdowns fell upon th’unwilling world

Accompanied by pain and stifled shouts of family grief

Till the world’s wisest company of brethren

In stately halls and candelabra’d chambers flush

At their desks with freshest data

Brought an end to that wailing noise

And comfort to those begging for release.

Tell, Mighty Wit, how the highest in forethought and,

That tremendous plus, the Science,

Saw off our panic and globed vexation

Until a drape of calmness furled around the earth

And beckoned a new and greater normal into each life

For which we give plenty gratitude and pay

Willingly for the vict’ry triumph

Merited by these wisest Gods.

Take us bravely to that source of all our woe

A wet and withered bat in Wuhan, or, some say,

A bat-lab nearby, carelessly venting bat juice to the world

While, ’tis equally true, Pharma and/or Bill Gates,

In league with Illuminati lizards

Hid poisoned cameras in our breath

So we could spray their malice drop by drop

Like spoken mist, as from a tower of Babel

Or like that other mighty shaft, the mast of 5G

(For, yes, I near forgot, 5G is another cause,

Since everyone has seen it said,

Where G is for George, and 5, to all, is clearly S,

The sign of the malevolent serpent Soros, it is true.)

And all is truth, for truth also can mutate,

Into twenty truths, and spawn twenty variants more,

Once uttered, slotting into any gaping void of sense

And fitting it like a fisting fact.

(etc, etc, for many pages).

Hotblack Desiato · 09-12-2021 8:59pm

Not sure if we have a better thread for this:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/right-to-die-campaigner-unveils-death-capsule-1.4751492

Chamber fills up with nitrogen and you go off to sleep and never wake up.

About 1,300 people annually end their lives legally in Switzerland, where right-to-die organisations assist with access to doctors and prescription drugs, in particular the barbiturate sodium pentobarbital, to cause respiratory arrest.

The first capsule will be operational next year in Switzerland – but has yet to be tested practically or legally. A Swiss lawyer commissioned by Exit International found the device requires no special permit. In gas analysis tests, Dr Nitschke said the capsule space, on activation, was not capable of sustaining life.

The Sarco will “demedicalise” the end-of-life process and, eventually, may include an artificial intelligence screening programme to replace a psychologist’s assessment of the person’s mental capacity to decide to end their life.

smacl · 10-12-2021 11:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118298162#Comment_118298162

Wonder where they got that idea https://futurama.fandom.com/wiki/Suicide_Booth :)

ohnonotgmail · 10-12-2021 11:53am

they are not unattractive looking so might make an interesting talking post at dinner parties.

Hotblack Desiato · 10-12-2021 12:32pm

Dinner party, toast to the host and then you climb into the thingy and job done.

ohnonotgmail · 10-12-2021 12:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300469#Comment_118300469

worse ways to go.

Hotblack Desiato · 10-12-2021 12:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300232#Comment_118300232

According to Wikipedia:

The concept can be found as early as 1893. When a series of suicides were[sic] vigorously discussed in United Kingdom newspapers, critic William Archer suggested that in the golden age there would be penny-in-the-slot machines by which a man could kill himself.

ohnonotgmail · 10-12-2021 12:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300500#Comment_118300500

I haven't used cash in ages. Could I tap and go instead?

Hotblack Desiato · 10-12-2021 11:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300477#Comment_118300477

No arguments over who does the washing-up (well, at least, not arguments involving you...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62eTq8ErUOQ

Hotblack Desiato · 13-12-2021 9:47pm

Said suicide device is due to feature on Claire Byrne tonight at 10:35, and for some reason Fr Brian D'Arcy will be asked his opinion on euthanasia

Hotblack Desiato · 14-12-2021 12:00am

It was all "palliative care", "palliative care" from the catholic contingent, same as during the 8th referendum. But palliative care doesn't solve everything, and it still denies the person their autonomy over their life. The latter is the thing they really have a problem with, but they won't say that, they'll wrap it up in faux compassion.

ohnonotgmail · 14-12-2021 11:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118318020#Comment_118318020

was there anyone opposing that opinion?

Hotblack Desiato · 14-12-2021 12:36pm

Yes, several of them spoke very well imho emphasising the points about autonomy and choice, and not wishing to force their family to witness a lingering, difficult death. I don't think those opposed would have convinced anyone who wasn't already (at least they were waaay more low-key and non-confrontational than the 2015 and 2018 referendum 'debates' though where the No campaigners were so odious they drove up the Yes vote)

One of them was the brother of a priest who died of MND and had been on LLS etc, he said that his brother's faith informed his opinions about the end of his life, but everyone else in a similar situation should have the right to make the choice that is right for them. He was very good and so was Kevin Quaid who wrote a book about being diagnosed with DLB (Lewy Body dementia)

Hotblack Desiato · 04-03-2022 5:43pm

On a lighter, and perhaps crazier, note (Yes, it's Mayo, strangely the surname is not Burke) -

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/no-basis-for-perjury-allegations-levelled-at-western-people-journalists-wrc-finds-1.4818414

A discrimination complaint against the Western People newspaper by a Co Mayo activist who claims its staff refused to print his press releases has been rejected by the Workplace Relations Commission.

Francis Eneas Kearney lodged a complaint under the Equal Status Act against the newspaper, which has an address at Francis Street, Ballina, Co Mayo.

He claimed he had been discriminated against on the grounds of disability, age and his Catholic faith on dates between August 2019 and July 2020, when he said the paper refused to print an advertisement and several press releases he sent in.

...

Mr Kearney rejected this and offered to take a “lie detector” test to “prove he was telling the truth”.

At the hearing, he also questioned the religion of the witnesses who appeared on behalf of the newspaper, and stated that he was a Catholic.

...

He told the commission he had been discriminated against by the paper on disability, age and religious grounds and that these grounds applied to all of his interactions with the newspaper.

...

[The adjudicator] ruled that none of his complaints were well-founded.

Hotblack Desiato · 14-03-2022 5:04pm

Letter in today's Irish Times:

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/religious-punks-1.4825630

Sir, – Frank McNally remarks that the Donegal Deist John Toland (1670-1722) may have had a bardic heritage (An Irishman’s Diary). Toland certainly lived up to that tradition in his verse diatribe against Catholicism, notably in the couplet, “The swarming Herds of crafty Priests and Monks, /The Female Orders of Religious Punks”. He held Anglicanism in equal contempt. – Yours, etc,

IGGY McGOVERN,

Dublin 14.

Hotblack Desiato · 21-04-2022 1:05pm

Has anyone noticed that the most recent thread in the Religions Archive forum is called "Bars" and it was in the Sprituality forum. Does anyone know what that means, as searching for "bars" doesn't seem too likely to produce relevant results 😁

gormdubhgorm · 25-04-2022 3:31pm

This is a YouTube video by a YouTuber ‘James Hargreaves’s who normally deals in stuff on the band Oasis.

In it he describes a small Christian Evangelist religious group he was a member of. Similar to that you would see on America TV.

https://youtu.be/azXfTf7iCTM

Hargreaves then became an Atheist as in his search for answers he felt tricked.

But what is it in a psychological disposition that makes people need answers. Or need that comfort blanket/safety net.

It seems to me some get benefit out of religion. And find good in it. But others need to find actual personal answers. Interpreting meaning and parable is not enough for them.

It says a lot about the human condition that despite a world of modernisation and advancement religion is still needed by many. Whether it is a general guide, safety net, search for answers, or a set of principles to live by.

Hotblack Desiato · 26-04-2022 11:41am

Why can't these people on Youtube ever make a point in 2 or 3 minutes? 🙄 although 30 minutes is better than many, I was expecting at least an hour! The Assembly of God is pretty crazy and fair play to him for getting out.

But what is it in a psychological disposition that makes people need answers. Or need that comfort blanket/safety net.

A lot fewer would "need" religion if they were not told from the cradle that they needed it and went to schools which told them every day they needed it and lived in societies constantly telling them they needed it.

Why do you think the Angelus is still on RTE? Why are there crosses on every mountaintop and ugly statues all over the place? It's all about creating a climate which normalises religious belief and tries to obscure the absurdity of those beliefs.

A need for answers is entirely normal, but religion does not actually provide any and has often stood in the way of advancing actual knowledge.

54and56 · 27-04-2022 7:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978450#Comment_118978450

This plus inherent laziness / inertia. Most people who ask the big questions can't be ar$sed taking the time to research and read up so simply reach for the silver bullet religion answer as it's all round them and easy to grasp plus there's comfort in numbers.

robindch · 13-05-2022 9:43am

Dawkins in Dublin on Saturday week for anybody interested:

https://ilfdublin.com/whats-on/festival/strand/writenow/eyes-on-the-sky-richard-dawkins/

robindch · 24-05-2022 12:48pm

App-based monetization of prayers is a thing these days too. Did you know that Rupert Murchdoch's News Corporation owns Bible Gateway? And that Paypal's libertarian, Trump-supporting boss, Peter Theil, funded the catholic-oriented Hallow prayer app (Theil co-founded the supremely creepy Palantir data analytics outfit)? The privacy policies of some of the main praying apps are leaky indeed, to say nothing of things like the US military purchasing user geo-location data from mobile apps for islamic prayers.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/apps-selling-your-prayers

https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgqm5x/us-military-location-data-xmode-locate-x

Hotblack Desiato · 24-05-2022 6:46pm

Interesting, although didn't the unlovely Thiel leave ~~PayPay~~ PayPal when it was sold to eBay quite a long time ago?

Edit: Freudian slip

smacl · 24-05-2022 7:42pm

Reading some interesting stuff on climate change deniers and their attitudes to atheism. From a review Michael Shellenberger's 'Apocalypse Never’,

Environmentalism fills a spiritual need within atheists. When you’re living a life of prosperity and you stop believing in god and think you’ll become worm food after you die, you ask yourself what’s the purpose of life?

First thing that came to mind on reading this was that devout Christians couldn't give a flying fúck for the planet as they reckon they're headed to heaven above which I daresay has decent climate control and aircon. Another review of the same book catches it rather better in comparing Malthusian and Cornucopian arguments on the subject. Jordon Peterson seems rather fond of Shellenberger's rhetoric, no surprises there. Some days I feel like we're marching towards the abyss singing Kumbayah ;)

/Rant

Hotblack Desiato · 25-05-2022 11:21am

The very concept that life has a higher purpose / we were put here for a reason / etc is very symptomatic of the theistic mindset.

robindch · 25-05-2022 12:03pm

didn't the unlovely Thiel leave PayPay when it was sold to eBay quite a long time ago?

Yes - I think it was around 20 years ago when he and his co-founders sold out to ebay for what sounded then like a lot of money.

The very concept that life has a higher purpose / we were put here for a reason / etc is very symptomatic of the theistic mindset.

It's so common that it has a name - the "Teleological Fallacy" 🤣

https://logfall.wordpress.com/teleological-fallacy/

robindch · 25-05-2022 5:29pm

btw, happy Towel Day everybody!

http://towelday.org/

Hotblack Desiato · 24-04-2023 10:00pm

We don't seem to have a dedicated euthanasia thread* so this seems as good a place as any.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0423/1378439-assisted-dying-committee-analysis/

TL,DR: the Oireachtas joint committee on assissed dying meets again tomorrow but has yet to decide when public hearings will begin. Once the first public hearing takes place the clock starts ticking and they have nine months to produce a report, to include any recommendations on legislative change. Depending on when they get started it's quite possible that there will not then be time to draft legislation and get it through the Oireachtas before the next general election. Some want the process to start ASAP while others don't want the clock to be ticking over the summer when nothing can happen anyway.

[*] Maybe we did and the mods euthanised it? 😁

Hotblack Desiato · 15-05-2023 1:09pm

Well, this isn't what I expected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANGELUS

ohnonotgmail · 15-05-2023 4:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120599561#Comment_120599561

What is the connection to A&A?

Hotblack Desiato · 16-05-2023 7:47am

I wanted to look up Angelus but caps lock was on and ANGELUS on Wikipedia redirects to the article above

robindch · 21-06-2023 12:06pm

Here are the ever-fresh Ian Dunt and Dorian Lynskey talking about the history of atheism in their (rather excellent) Origin Story podcast:

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/atheism-no-god-what-now/id1624704966?i=1000614587134

Hotblack Desiato · 21-06-2023 2:02pm

Enjoy the solstice everyone! (and those bright evenings while they're still here...)

Hotblack Desiato · 12-10-2023 12:23am

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/10/02/courts-have-key-role-to-play-in-protecting-rights-in-in-current-era-says-chief-justice/

The Chief Justice stressed the importance of open, efficient and independent justice in what was the first secular ceremony to mark the start of a new legal year.

The decision to move away from the traditional two religious services that have opened past legal years came following a report by a committee chaired by the Supreme Court’s Ms Justice Elizabeth Dunne.

Mr Justice O’Donnell said the previous Church of Ireland and Roman Catholic services have been “valuable and often beautiful”, but there has always been “some discomfort” with the idea of the legal year being “associated, almost by default, with religion”.

About time.

Interesting Stuff Thread

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