Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

Weepsie · 10-12-2021 1:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300083#Comment_118300083

But why are you bringing this up. They can still walk / drive and use the car park. You're making it out as if supervalu not being able to use a dedicated cycle lane as a loading bay, will force them to starve or something (hyperbole is deliberate).

Nothing here is preventing them getting to and from the store. Yet you have brought it up so it deserves to be questioned. The valuable service they offer can be done, without them damaging proeprty.

Superquinn. Neither the four provences, Superquinn, Supervalu/Musgraves, Rosebud Sports Ltd or Flyefit have applied for any sort of change to enable a loading bay facility there or in the area. They've applied for changes to the front, permission to have things done out back, basements, extensions, add stories, add awnings, but never have they applied to change anything to do with loading and have just taken it for granted that they can use the public road and cycle lane.

Can't work with the council if they don't look to solve the issue in the first place

Macy0161 · 10-12-2021 1:09pm

I'd ask again, is there something stopping Supervalu using a smaller van that either can access the car park or the existing loading bay? Rather than paying lip service to environmental issues on their website/ in store.

DoraDelite · 10-12-2021 1:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300267#Comment_118300267

Musgraves have a logistics division, it's literally peoples jobs to ensure that they can deliver to all types of stores in varied locations. The fact that they are unwilling to do that is nothing to do with the council. The fact they have been getting away with it for years with no enforcement means they'll keep doing it. If there was enforcement they would change their practices fairly sharpish. It's crazy that multi-million (or even billion) corporations have managed to convince the public that it's the councils fault that they are parked illegally for deliveries.

Podge_irl · 10-12-2021 1:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300298#Comment_118300298

So what is the relevance of the shop providing services to elderly people? They can continue to do that, they should just stop breaking the law in order to get their deliveries.

Trudee · 10-12-2021 1:22pm

Back to my point that a person reads what they want to read into a post; I didn't 'make out' that anybody was going to starve or something (your word), didn't suggest anybody was being prevented from entering store. What does 'four provences' mean?

Dowee · 10-12-2021 1:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300267#Comment_118300267

This is Supervalu's issue to resolve, not the council's and there are a number of simple solutions (suggested above) which could already have been implemented if they had the desire to do so.

Additionally the easiest solution is park in the driving lane and inconvenience people in cars instead of damaging public property and endangering vulnerable road users. It never ceases to amaze me how people who wouldn't dream of parking temporarily on the road have no issue doing so on cycle lanes and footpaths.

Weepsie · 10-12-2021 1:37pm

Supervalu was previously Super Quinn. Prior to 2007 it was the Four Provences pub. All of the planning applications that they had made as far back as 1997 are available to view online. Not once did they seek to address the loading bay issue.

You are saying that they have to be able to get goods in, from these trucks and that only on that side of the road though. In a roundabout way, but that's what your saying. The loading bay across the road, is suitable for the vast majority of Musgraves delivery fleet. As someone has said they have an entire logisitics division. The larger trucks have no place being there

Trudee · 10-12-2021 1:58pm

Most likely Supervalu didn't seek to address the loading bay issue as it is only since implementation of 24hr cycle lane this year that it will have become more of an issue than in the past. Not being au fait with Musgraves delivery operations it is not for me to posit why they choose to use the delivery fleet that they do; perhaps they are delivering to Ranelagh/Churchtown/Blackrock or some variation thereof.

Weepsie · 10-12-2021 2:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300625#Comment_118300625

IT's been an issue for as long as that mandatory cycle lane has been there, which is at least 12 years, and likely longer. Even when it was 7am-7pm. it was a mandatory lane, meaning it could not be parked in, could not be driven in, and could not be used as a loading bay. They have used it as thus the entire time. they simply didn't bother to address the situation.

So why, why on earth is it for the council to propose a solution, when Supervalu/Musgrave have not asked for one. They've ignored for over a decade the laws regarding the lane, and are now destroying property in the process.

Trudee · 10-12-2021 3:07pm

Council have implemented changes and upgrades along all that route in the past year including Zebra interventions so if there was a problem with Supervalu and deliveries then that was the perfect time to address it.

Weepsie · 10-12-2021 3:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118301086#Comment_118301086

And it's not for the council to plan on behalf of Supervalu. Supervalu have never submitted an application to make any sort of amendment to the layout. Its for them to do, not the council.

They have the same access as everyone else.

Dowee · 10-12-2021 3:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118301193#Comment_118301193

As has been seen with numerous cycling infrastructure projects, a lot of people seem to think it is the council's job to drop in for a cup of tea and personally explain on a one to one basis the plans to everyone in the vicinity (or anywhere else in the country) before proceeding with any changes.

Macy0161 · 10-12-2021 3:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118301086#Comment_118301086

They did address it - they put up wands to protect the mandatory cycle lane FFS!

Grassey · 10-12-2021 3:58pm

Is there a reason that the delivery truck can't just stick on the flashers for a few mins and stay in lane?

It's a dashed white line, so any other road users can legally and safely pass them by.

oh... wait.... it would be unthinkable to block a 'road' to traffic. Yet illegally blocking another route for 'lesser' traffic is ok?

I'd say if there wasn't so much path furniture along there, you'd be saying it's grand for him to pull up on the pavement, sure the pedestrians can walk around. The subtle hard pressed motorist cant be inconvencied prejeduce shines again!

Trudee · 10-12-2021 5:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118301492#Comment_118301492

Obviously not addressed if delivery trucks can't unload because of wands. No solution to a problem that is not going away means not addressed in my book.

Trudee · 10-12-2021 5:04pm

The issue of delivery trucks and cycle lanes is across the city so argue all you like about illegal parking until a solution/compromise is found this is not going away anytime soon. I cycle to and from work every day and come across delivery trucks and construction trucks parked on cycle path, it's a fact of life, in most cases I don't see any other way for these trucks to go about their business without parking in cycle path but maybe you all live in areas where there are alternatives.

Dowee · 10-12-2021 5:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118301908#Comment_118301908

Maybe you need to re-read the responses above if you still can't see other ways for deliveries to be made. It might help if you change the way you look at this situation, ie. the cycles lanes are not "the problem".

Trudee · 10-12-2021 5:32pm

Until somebody who actually works in Transport with Musgraves posts then I'll reserve judgement on the responses. I don't recall saying cycle lanes are 'the problem' again another case of reading into a post what you want to read into it.

Seaswimmer · 10-12-2021 5:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118301908#Comment_118301908

For someone who cycles to and from work everyday you have a very benign attitude to the cycle lanes being blocked. I am not in the same situation but if I were still cycling to work every day and everyday my way was blocked I would certainly be making some representations about it.

Trudee · 10-12-2021 5:49pm

Correct, I do have a benign attitude to cycle lanes being blocked by delivery trucks and construction trucks and even by taxis if they are stopping to pick up or drop off passengers, there you go, in my book it's part and parcel of living in a city and no I don't feel in any way inclined to make representations about delivery trucks outside Supervalu or wherever but each to their own.

DoraDelite · 10-12-2021 5:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118302108#Comment_118302108

It's part and parcel of Dublin where enforcement is zero. It's not part and parcel in any normal progressive liveable city. The acceptance of it is a symptom of Stockholm Syndrome on your part, it does not have to be this way.

Larbre34 · 10-12-2021 5:58pm

I've been to many of these so-called liveable, progressive cities. They bored the arse off me.

I'm not saying Dublin couldn't handle improved cycling priority, but many who are advocating throwing the baby out with the bathwater are putting Dublin's unique character at risk.

Macy0161 · 10-12-2021 6:07pm

Putting unique character at risk by enforcing road traffic laws? Give me a feckin break.

Weepsie · 10-12-2021 6:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118302148#Comment_118302148

Dublin's "unique character" has been long since lost with absolute shite developers and urban planners being let loose on it, and ripping what made it unique out over decades. Efforts being made to make it a more liveable place are only good, but instead we get endless shite hotels, co-living spaces, rental boxes, convenience stores and stuff. That's all unique I guess.

Dublin city centre is well beyond saturation point in terms of vehicular traffic. It is a small city by most standards. Walking from one side of the canal cordon to the other is very doable for most adults, yet still people think they must do it by car. It's the only way for many, and they're the very ones who complain about delays and how long everything takes.

Why people seem so tied to an expensive, woefully inefficient and unhealthy mode of transport for small journeys is utterly mental

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118302033#Comment_118302033

that's a lame attempt at shutting it down and going lalalala i'm not listening.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118301908#Comment_118301908

There is an alternative, literally across the road.

ARX · 10-12-2021 6:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118302148#Comment_118302148

That reminds me of some guy who said that Copenhagen was boring because the buses ran on time. Yeah, waiting for a bus is really exciting.

Dublin's "unique character"? Yeah, the sh1tty broken roads and footpaths, the relentless traffic noise, the cars absolutely f*king everywhere all the f*king time, that's Dublin's "unique character".

Dublin could have been a lovely city, but it's a kip and will be a kip (possibly a submerged kip) when our grandchildren are dust.

Trudee · 10-12-2021 7:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118302201#Comment_118302201

I prefer to get information from sources who are actually involved in the disciplines they are talking about otherwise everyone is an ‘expert’.

In relation to your second retort - the loading bay across road is not a viable ‘alternative’ for Musgrave truck deliveries to Supervalu Ranelagh.

Dowee · 10-12-2021 7:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118302108#Comment_118302108

What many people (including some of those who cycle) often fail to grasp is that one of the primary reasons we need safe cycling infrastructure is to encourage / allow those who are less confident and / or are more vulnerable, to cycle from A to B safely. Whilst I might be more than happy and confident to cycle on busy roads with no lanes or to pull out into the middle of the road to go around delivery trucks in bike lanes, it proves a major deterent to those who haven't been cycling for the same number of years as me.

In summary, it's not all about you....or me.

Dowee · 10-12-2021 7:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118302379#Comment_118302379

They don't deliver by boat or plane either because there isn't appropriate infrastructure for them. Same applies to the large trucks, if only there was such a thing as smaller delivery trucks.

AndrewJRenko · 10-12-2021 7:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118298886#Comment_118298886

They can just stop in the main traffic lane for their deliveries. Vehicular traffic can just go round, and they just need to take care when crossing the bike lane with their trolley.

Or they can use a large van or small truck that can fit through the archway to their loading dock at the rear.

Either way, it is Supervalu's problem to solve.

magicbastarder · 10-12-2021 7:28pm

and that again plays back into the notion that it's OK to inconvenience cyclists by blocking their lane, but a truck parking in the 'car' lane instead to unload, would very possibly draw garda attention.

Trudee · 10-12-2021 7:31pm

Groundhog Day

AndrewJRenko · 10-12-2021 7:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300625#Comment_118300625

Wasn't it yourself that posted details of the I Bike Dublin bike lane protection events at that location? It's been an issue for ever.

lamaq · 10-12-2021 7:40pm

One thing I don't get is that just a few years ago the council were reducing the hours of bike lanes (eg Sandford Rd went from 24 hour to certain times). Now we have the wands but in a lot of cases the hours are still not 24x7.

Is there a reason for this?

Edit: appreciate that outside Supervalu is 24x7, but most other locations do not have updated signage.

https://goo.gl/maps/MRyV9QXxaz2xiVdq7

Weepsie · 10-12-2021 8:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118302379#Comment_118302379

It absolutely is for their fleet of 50 trucks that you'd fit 2 of in their.

If youre going to quickly try and shut down stuff with waiting for an expert, then you shouldnt be post unsubstantied nonsense and make claims based on what are feelings and no more really

Trudee · 10-12-2021 9:23pm

No idea what you are asserting when you say I post ‘unsubstantied’ (sic) nonsense and ‘make claims based on what are feelings and no more really’ but neither am I going to spend too much energy or time giving above any credence or thought.

tomasrojo · 11-12-2021 12:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118302721#Comment_118302721

I got the distinct impression that after the wands went in members of staff there, probably on their own initiative, took to social media to defend the destruction of the wands. Some passionate defence, followed by deletion of tweets.

Glencarraig · 11-12-2021 9:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297560#Comment_118297560

On a road with no footpath yes you need to face oncoming traffic. Not in a public park.

Duckjob · 11-12-2021 10:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118302238#Comment_118302238

In fairness you can't beat the thrill and exhilaration of being forced out of the cycle path in front of a following car and wondering about what sort of person the driver of the 2 tonnes of metal behind you is.

Are they a mentally stable person who will treat you sympathetically?

Or an angry frazzled NewsTalk listener who thinks you're not paying your way on the road and is going to start blasting their horn at you?

Or a borderline psychopath who will speed up and drive on on top of your back wheel to teach you a lesson for being in the way ?

Everyday is different!

buffalo · 11-12-2021 10:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118306982#Comment_118306982

Why not?

tomasrojo · 12-12-2021 2:32am

Have to say, the rule about facing oncoming traffic when walking is sometimes inappropriate. When you're approaching a blind bend that veers away to the right, you're better off to switch to the other side until you're round the corner. In my experience anyway.

Peregrine · 12-12-2021 7:23pm

https://twitter.com/Niels_JW/status/1470075147868590084?s=20

Whoever has been redesigning this junction over and over again for the last three years is clearly just not qualified for the job. Like, what the hell is that? Coming from the right and turning right towards Pearse Street looks like a nightmare.

Glencarraig · 12-12-2021 10:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118307462#Comment_118307462

Because then you would have people walking in both directions on both sides of the path which is currently happening. Throw in a few dog walkers with head down on their phone and a couple of kamikaze kids on scooters and bikes whose parents cant be arsed to supervise them and you have mayhem. Why do you think that in some parks the enlightened council have painted "keep left" on the paths or even better Wicklow County Council painted on Bray promenade "Ah come on, keep left", brilliant.

buffalo · 13-12-2021 9:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118312034#Comment_118312034

Because some 'enlightened' councils have a windshield view and think that the left is the correct side to be, even when you're not in the car.

It's irresponsible, because the same people then continue to do the same on the roads, where you should walk on the right (with exceptions, as tomasrojo points out). The rule of thumb for the entire country of Ireland is to walk on the right, cycle and drive on the left. Why some councils feel the need to create pockets of exceptions for this is beyond me, unless someone thought "well I drive on the left on the road, so everyone should walk on the left on the path".

Macy0161 · 13-12-2021 10:49am

I think ye maybe reading too much into what are essentially covid issues to try and have physical distancing. I certainly don't recall any markings on Bray Seafront pre-covid (except for no bikes).

p15574 · 13-12-2021 11:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118300419#Comment_118300419

But what have the elderly got to do with delivery drivers blocking and damaging a cycle lane? Why mention them at all?

Weepsie · 13-12-2021 1:27pm

So I cycled alongside one of those Musgrave's delivery trucks today, it would fit in the ranelagh loading bay with room to spare for a car

13-12-2021 6:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118302921#Comment_118302921

I live in Ranelagh, I think there is space in the loading bay across from SuperValu to fit the existing size delivery truck they use - have a look at Google Streeview and you'll see a similar size truck illegally parked in the Bus Stop further down the road.

One of the Taxi Ranks at the Triangle should be repurposed into a Loading Bay for the village (if not both) but no matter what is done, delivery drivers will still park illegally including inside wands and cycle tracks because there are no implications for doing so, AGS do not give a fiddlers, SuperValu and other businesses don't care either - I'd urge anyone who cycles not to buy in Joy's Flowers as they consistently park on the footpath there even though there's a loading bay directly across from them that is often empty.

I've stopped shopping in SuperValu in Ranelagh because of this, I shop in Lidl instead, how come Lidl delivery drivers don't park like muppets? Never seen it happen once since Lidl opened.

Larbre34 · 13-12-2021 10:15pm

Lidl takes in its deliveries from its goods entrance to the side, off the Main Road on Westmoreland Park. Its not a reasonable comparison.

And the fact you would stop supporting a local Irish franchise just because trucks can't access a particularly tight and awkward urban carpark, is just churlish.

Weepsie · 13-12-2021 10:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317318#Comment_118317318

They can use the loading bay across the road. They don't. That's the point.

Larbre34 · 13-12-2021 10:57pm

A truck blocking the cycle lane for a while is a hazard.

A delivery driver pushing pallets and bogeys full of produce across a busy main road for a while is a hazard.

Thats just life in an urban village, shaped 300 years ago.

Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

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