Old Farmhouse renovation

I inherited an old house and really really wanted to do it up, but I think a new one will be going in on its place. It’s a hard decision, a lot of nostalgia attached

A new one would be simpler but there’s history and legacy with the old one and great satisfaction when the project is complete

Could be an interesting thread to start. Few probably have old buildings/ houses worth doing up on here.

I did up an old two up two down farm house. Consider removing internal chimneys. You can replace them with steels studs and fireproof/concrete board This allows you much more scope with layout. What condition is the existing roof are you replacing it. I had to in the one I did.

Yours sound a large house. I had a problem with low ceilings down stairs that were only 3X2 joists with a 9X3 beam all along middle of them holding them up. I replaced with 7X2 and used 4X/4 box to support the middle.

I replaced the ground floors and insulated underneath. This allowed me install a DPC under the floors. I drylined the external wall, I used timber studs. However consider using steel to make a frame to support floorboards. I used former effect upstairs to get headheight.

More than likely all your lentils are timber. Replace them now as the timber will be in poor condition I imagine. If you are reroofing make sure your budget is the place for the slates. Only 1 in two or three of your slates may be good enough to go back up.

If you have an existing septic tank you need not go near planning no matter how poor it is. Remember begging forgiveness is easier than asking premission.

Try not to cement plaster the outside if possible. These stone walls were designed to breath. That is why whitewash was so common. This message s often what prevents internal dampness.

There is other things if I remember I will put up. However remember if it has stayed standing 220years the chance of structural issues are minimal

Just on the rendering; I see a lot advocate lime rendering to let the walls breath as you say, but I have no experience with it to be honest. Agree on the chimneys, the new flue systems are much better and chances are older ones are porous, your heart would be broke with them.

I'm surprised the bellows and crane lasted; we had same plus a traditional wooden kitchen sideboard taken out of a relatives old cottage. Belfast sink somehow survived as it was hidden behind a door.

Looking forward to this thread as I have an interest in our built heritage. Gk will you throw up a few pic's of the house now and as you go through the renovation process. A picture paints a thousand words and all that.

There's an old cottage on land we bought 30 years ago, a small two up two down storey and a half, with beautiful cut stone front and redbrick around the front windows and door. I have a hairbrained plan to renovate it suitable for renting or Air B&B a few years down the line, so might pick up a few tips here.

Best of luck with the work GK.

Oh and another tip - if you have soot coming through the walls from the chimneys - there's a very cheap solution, cow dung!

Seriously, did it here and not the faintest stain came through the plaster after.

All sorts of sealants and paints had been tried previously and none worked.

Sometimes the cheapest option is the best one!

You box in a continuous steel flue all the way up.. you surround the flue with glass wool (not rock wool it smells at high temperatures). In a lot housing now steel studs are used instead of timber studs in partitions etc. So you use these to carry the frame up out through the roof. Remember stoves and wood pellet burners no longer need to be central in a room you can place off center or in corners.

Old floor joist's were usually laid at the build level and incorporated into the stone wall. The problem is with any new renovation the ceilings downstairs are invariably too low. The advantage of a steel frame is that you can get caught over windows with the weight of upstairs floors. I saw 4x3 on edge warp down. I should have sacked the structural engineer ( myself by our mistakes we learn). We used angle iron. I think if doing a job like that again I would have used a steel frames after taking out the chimney which I did not do either. The windows upstairs are only 10-12'' off the floor but I put in velux's as I used the roof space upstairs in a former effect to gain ceiling height

Your old walls will not be square so there will always be breathing gaps behind insulation. BER rating are a load of crap with old houses as old stone walls 2' thick are consider the same as cavity block.

I was going renting this house so I was watching costs. Never realized about taking out the chimney it was a lad said it time after. Would only have added a grand to the cost as I had to put in continuation flues anyway and had to replace the top of the chimney from the upper step on it ( 3-4 ' below roof level).

The render outside was very average, nobody had lived in the house for 30+ years. I just got it packed here and there with a bit of mortor. I put plinths at the bottom to try to stop the little visitors and footpaths. After that 2 coats of white wash with a little yellow ochre to give a kind of magnolia finish. It becomes oeevh in the winter.

I whitewashed the chimney inside on the landing as a feature. I striped the old lime plaster off. Then three coats of wash. I put a bit of bluestone to bring it up brilliant white

Devil's advocate...

If a number of people who work in the industry are telling you that it would be better to start again, why are you ignoring them? While it is great to restore have you done the sums and/or got a QA to cost or your plans? Will you be able to get a floor plan to suit your needs or are you having to work around the footprint of the house?

most will be cheaper to knock and build. People think it will be cheaper to restore but a lot of the costs are hidden.

the builders and engineers should be trusted on this one.

But cheaper doesn’t mean better.

For many rescuing a building with the history and heritage of their family is worth paying a bit more for.

beef from Brazil is cheaper, doesn’t mean it’s better.

If you knock you must go to planning. That means complete new plans waste treatment etc. Maybe a contribution levy as well.

A it depends on your own skill set. You may get away with direct labour. Most builders and engineers want nothing to do with old buildings. Building regs have changed so much. I was advised to knock the house I did up as well. It cost about 50k to renovate( admittedly it was for a rental) but I did replace the roof and a complete redo inside. It like a complete new house.

Now I have seen a few botch jobs as well. One lad put external insulation on the outside and the gutters sit on top of them.

By the sounds of the way your talking I’d say knock it. Rubble walls without footings is all you have by the sounds of it and to get to that you are talking of stripping the roof, messing around with chimneys and half arseing an under pin job. You will have an old building that weeps, everything off square , probably with small windows in the wrong position. Then try get an electrician or plumber to bring in services or waste in a few spots and you end up trying to get a 4” pipe through a wall and a 6’ hole by the time your finished.

do it once and do it right, on the same footprint if you want in the same style but you won’t regret having it built properly and it will more than likely cost less. I’ve worked on a lot of these buildings and the enthusiasm wears off fairly quickly when the practicalities set in.

With the cost of energy increasing exponentially, these houses with poor BER rating will be worthless.

If the walls are 2' thick internal insulation is adequate. External insulation is quite expensive and as there is no facia and soffit on older houses the end result is not good aesthetically very good.

Ber rating has nothing to do with running costs of houses. This is especially true if older houses. Accessors take all older houses as standard build for there time. The difference in running costs between a D and an A can be very little. BER to s about carbon not about energy efficiency.

Gk you are totally right that the ones who say knock it and rebuild are the ones who have no experience of restoration of stone buildings.

Saved almost €30,000 here by restoration and a 2 storey extension Vs what we were quoted for "knock and rebuild".

And we gutted back to the bare walls inside and out.

It's certainly less predictable to price work on an old house, but if you pay a few hundred for a survey from builders who specialise in stone buildings it would be well with it!

If knock and rebuild had been a much cheaper option (it wasn't thankfully) we'd have taken it.

But couldn't be happier with the end result now as we have the "mod cons" while keeping all the character and history of the old house

It's seen as an energy rating, we're looking for a house at the moment and have been advised not to buy worse than a B rating

Mine is listed, it's only a small house but unusual

I think you're on the right track keeping insulation away from walls, if you could strip away cement plaster inside and out and use breathable fabric instead of plastic it would be well worthwhile. A lot of improvements carried out on these farmhouses 1960 - 1980s often made the situation worse ( ventilation and trapping damp ) Best of luck if you do it and would enjoy hearing of progress.

Much nicer than any new build. Fair play Neddyusa.