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The Irish protocol.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 69,155 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    You have unified with Spain. It’s called the Eu.

    its relevant because you are more opposed to British sausages in the Eu than sticking knives in beautiful majestic bulls.

    how is that not relevant?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Because that is how negotiations work. I said it many pages back. Even though you guys say they are not negotiating 🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,155 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Is this the new hill to die on after dying on the ECJ one?

    Let us do what we want because bullfighting?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    .....did you even read my post, DC? I'll give you a clue, try the first line. I've been far more involved in trying to have that banned than I've spent minutes concerned about "British sausages".

    It isn't relevant because the thread is about the NI Protocol, not EU Whataboutery to deflect.


    You actually disagreed that the ECJ issue was quietly dropped when I said it was clear that it had, demanding proof from me on 19th November. Several posters pointed out that no matter the outcome, you'd try and sell it as a win. Quelle Surprise, here you go with, 'just as planned' nonsense.....


    Can you provide any evidence that you've been told they're not negotiating? You pull this line during every knock back, despite repeatedly being informed that the EU are more than happy to negotiate, but they will not renegotiate the existence of the Protocol itself. Peregrinus even provided a handy barometer for how you'd tell if they had caved on this.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 69,155 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    All it took was a quick whack of the tariff stick from Biden and the tent was folded. Will be good to see what Bryson has to say today.



  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The role of the ECJ wasn't being negotiated. The UK have just dropped the demand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Something something Union Dismantling Protocol, something something Article 16 now, something something Belfast Agreement, something something Border where it belongs.

    Think you'll cover about 90% of his historic tweets since the Protocol was agreed, and probably 90% of all his future ones. Maybe throw in hopping up on a bin to harken back to the bad days he knows f*ck all about at a sparsely attended, 'protest' at some point too.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Taliyah Massive Ax


    And if you have that attitude, then you cant be surprised if unionists want nothing to do with a united Ireland.

    As I have said many times here and elsewhere, stage 1 is to let unionists know they are wanted in a UI and not treated as a burden of some sort or an opportunity to get revenge for the wrongs of previous generations and centuries. Apart from a few notable exceptions, I see little evidence of that on here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,155 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Why do people keep missing the words that define who exactly is being referred to? Like 'British only' or in this case the poster said 'some' Unionists.

    The vast vast majority of Unionists are the moderate ones that belligerent Unionists were unable to provoke into protest or violence.



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  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Taliyah Massive Ax


    "When there is a United Ireland, i hope unionists remember how many compromises they made to the Nationalist community because I sure will."

    No "some" in there Francie, in fact its quite a sinister statement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,155 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It's a language ffs, why are some unionists so insecure. 


    Quite clear who he was talking about



  • Registered Users Posts: 274 ✭✭dabestman1


    Amazed that posters always feel that Unionists need to be appeased rather than looking at how they've reached across to the Nationalist community over the last 100 years. Can't think of many but then there's burning the tricolor on a bonfire, refusing to enact agreements that they agreed to, the ILA, ensuring that there is no justice for Pat Finucane, Ballymurphy Victims, Bloody Sunday victims, John Pat Cunningham, who the DUP glorified his murderer,etc , ensuring the marking of 100 years of partition which alienated a sizeable portion of the population, playing GSTQ at NI football games and finally wanting a hard border instead of a sea border on the Island of Ireland just to stick it the nationalist community.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭votecounts


    First of all appeasement works both ways and they are plenty of Nationalists who don't want anything to with Britain so should they be stuck under British Control if the time comes when a majority support a UI due to Unionists not wanting it.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Taliyah Massive Ax


    Folks if you dont see that you need to let unionists know they are wanted to more easily achieve a UI then I cant really help you or explain it differently.

    And I never said appease, just a simple "we'd be glad to have you" would do. In fact, baby steps, if you cant manage that, at least not saying "when theres a UI we'll remember what you did" would be a good start.

    And listing sins of unionists will get us nowhere, you are probably expacting (hoping ?) that I now start an equivalent whataboutery about nationalist sins. Nope. The way forward is together, hopefully enough will see that in time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭votecounts


    What do you do if you cannot convince the Unionists that they belong in a UI as some will not be persuaded and a majority of the population vote for a UI. Would you wait until they are convinced and let's be serious as I don't see supporters of the DUP/TUV ever being persuaded.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,155 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Moderate Unionism knows there is no issue with them being a part of a modern EU country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Not at all. Simply checking out a strange position being held ie. ‘we won’t tolerate orange bands parading in a United ireland but we will tolerate people sticking knives in majestic bulls in a United EU’

    just strange. But sure hypocrisy never worried many on here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    This is just silly acrobatics. It is clear to all that the whole sense of many posters was that the Eu would not negotiate except utilising ‘flexibilities’ already in the protocol- and then, only after Uk implemented protocol in full.



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,524 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty




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  • Registered Users Posts: 69,155 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You can parade where you want downcow, how often do you need to be told.

    What you can't do in a UI is the same as you have been made stop doing by the Parades Commission - taunt, intimidate and insult.

    You have toed the line mostly on that, shouldn't be a problem if you are in a UI.



  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What on Earth happens now? Do we actually discuss the protocol?



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,155 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    That's all that is happening downcow. Solutions being sought on 'practical trade problems, customs checks'.

    Once they are sorted, same Protocol, same border in the Irish Sea.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,337 ✭✭✭Suckler


    Accusing others of silly acrobatics when you need to resort to Spanish bullfighting on a thread entitled "The Irish Protocol"......



  • Registered Users Posts: 466 ✭✭Mr Bumble


    Sins have consequences.

    You cannot you completely ignore the DUP attempt to scupper the GFA and reinstate a hard border or the dishonesty of the UDA/DUP when they invented death threats against LArne customs staff and sent children out on the street to riot. You must call that out.

    You cannot say "no matter what you do, we accept that as part of your culture" when it actually has nothing to do with culture but is, in fact, bigotry, simple thuggery or worst of all, a cynical attempt to undermine the GFA and democracy.

    It is a normal civilised response in a civilised society to call out wrong doing. Look what is happening in London because a bought, sold or cowed media ignored the lies and corruption.

    We dealt with the Provos in Ireland, engaged in very dubious censorship practices to keep them off the air and put hundreds of them in jail yet you can seen plainly from a few posters here that this is wilfully ignored in favour of a narrative in which unionists are being persecuted and we're all closet Provos. This leads to the bizarre idea that the onus to take responsibility for actions is on everyone but unionists. This is just "no surrender" dressed up as something else.

    Calling out wrong doing is immediately tagged as sectarianism or balanced with an equivalent sin. Absolute bollox, if you excuse the french but it provides cover for the DUP to continue dealing in bad faith with their neighbours.

    There are people in NI who would rather chew their arm off than live in a UI. Telling them "we love you" is not going to help.

    I have no animosity towards them. Never have had, Never will have.

    They will never be convinced and may yet find themselves in a similar position to nationalists stranded in NI after partition. The world is not always a fair place and I would have sympathy for their position.

    But it's up to unionism how it deals with this, not me and not Irish people generally.

    They can fight or they can sit down and talk.



  • Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭lurleen lumpkin


    Maybe grown up, good faith debate with actual moderate unionists like Taliyah Massive Ax can get a foothold and develop now without the relentless derailing circular arguments, disingenuousness, deflection and whataboutery.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You call others belligerent Unionists, others again partitionists, and you refer to any attempt to reach out to Unionism as appeasement.

    A classic exclusionary nationalist, yet you would probably report me for saying that.

    The type of attitude you display is toxic to good relations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,155 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch, I live on the border and I know many Unionists and count them as my friends.

    They will talk candidly with me and I with them.

    I will not accept belligerence from anybody. And I don't call any attempt to reach out 'appeasement'. I am quite happy to change anthem, flag and many other things to accommodate.

    I am ideologically opposed to those of a partitionist bent...sorry about that, but that's life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Indeed, that is a reasonable point.

    However, I can't see certain republicans agreeing to the type of changes needed on our side. The removal of murals depicting terrorism, the ending of the misuse of the tricolour, the banning of certain songs not to mention the activities of councillors with Kingsmill bread on their heads etc. There is now actually a lot more provocative in "Irish republican" culture than in unionist culture.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    There are plenty of people from a Unionist background in the north who'll be an asset to a United Ireland. A large aspect of partitionism in the south is the remnants of the conservative counter-revolution that usurped the vision of the revolutionary period. People from the north have a higher expectation of the state to deliver when it comes to health and housing and the idea of two million such citizens added to the electorate horrifies many in FF/FG who are loathe to use anything other than 'market solutions' (their speculator friends).



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