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Is Ireland Racist?

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Lol.

    Robbie, do you think Ireland is racist? Yes or no?



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,684 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Lol.

    Do you think there is such a thing as an acceptable level of racism? Yes or no?



  • Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭Luttrell1975


    Just scanning this thread and two issues for me deserve a comment.

    1. Just because we don't have any traction in the political system does not mean racism isn't here. There is the danger that racism only gets defined as direct hate speech like GOD and JWZombie. The PDs and FF were into the racism when they brought in a racist citizenship referendum. Racism happens all the time in Ireland anyway in other ways.
    2. "Given the recent history of immigration". That's 30 years now. There are black lads playing for the Irish soccer teams. For me Ireland doesn't have anywhere like the number of immigrants compared to other places I spend time like England, Belgium, France, Germany.


  • Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭Luttrell1975


    You repeat the OPs question. The question is framed naiively. It should be "is there racism in Ireland". Measuring whether a whole country is racist is a relativity, but a question that could mean anything.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    When did you stop beating your wife?

    Racism should never be accepted but it should be expected.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,684 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Never been married.

    It absolutely should never be expected.



  • Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    In my experience, when it comes to skin colour based racism, Ireland is an amateur compared to Mexico inasmuch as the casual, verbalized racism on the streets there is off the charts compared to here. Not that this excuses it anywhere, but these things need to be put into context and proportion.

    I mentioned Mexico when chatting to a neighbour recently, Labour party type, retired public sector (some generalizations there to feast upon). Nice fella, and very much in the protect immigrants from racism camp, he found this prejudice extraordinary because "Mexicans are" at this point he could hardly bring himself to say the word and, after some inner struggle, it came out with a whimper "brown." All Others are an homogenous blob to the well intentioned anti-racist, making a virtue of their generalizations while claiming to combat generalizing modes of thought. A downward spiral of BS, basically.

    Putrid topic bound to go around in circles because it is based on crude generalizations about whites, blacks, Mexicans, Irish et al. Then it has to be repeated ad nauseum that there are qualifications to the generalizations. Is propositional logic part of the school curriculum here? It should be. It is one the most powerful anti-prejudice tools out there.

    Also, while I don't agree with the earlier poster that said Ireland is racist towards working class white families, there is a streak in middle class liberal Irish society for whom their love of 'the Other' is directly proportional to their contempt for white, Irish working class people, and possibly to their contempt for themselves. Note - people like this are liberals not lefties, an important distinction between two vulgar generalizations.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,270 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Interestingly this weeks Doc on One on RTE Radio 1 is this one

    It's about how in 2013 two children were removed from two different Roma families because simply they didn't look like their parents or siblings.

    I wonder was it based on racism ?

    Did a member of society notify the authorities that there was a strange looking child in a Roma family and something must be up ?

    Did the authorities then look at it and say there must be something up, and go all nuclear and remove the child ?

    There was a Europe wide hysteria about alleged Roma abduction of non Roma kids at the time.

    And we bought into that hysteria hook line and sinker.

    I can't imagine the trauma the parents went through at the time, having their child removed from them just because they looked different.

    If I recall at the time there were not many dissenting voices at the time.




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,270 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    The birth right citizenship referendum passed by over 80%

    When Trump suggested the US get rid of their birth right citizenship the usual "orange man bad" outrage was in full voice in this country.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Regarding the working class, and the middle class.. They both have similar biases. It's the essence of tribalism. Once you perceive yourself to be of a certain group, then negative opinions will form towards competing groups. Especially, groups that compete for resources. Just as the working and middle class have their biases towards the upper class. It's not racism, in any case.

    As for any kind of contempt for themselves, I don't see it. The only aspect of that is the social justice warriors, or agenda driven activists, with their advocacy of white privilege, but activists aren't bound by class, but by education (or conditioning which could come from social media) and temperament... and considering the availability of education in Ireland, working class individuals are often as well educated as middle class people. I find when people talk about the working class in Ireland, they tend to focus on the past definitions, without any real consideration of the changes in Irish society over the last 50-60 years.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭Luttrell1975


    Good catch, I forgot the result. I was disgusted and voted no to that. Jus sanguinis is a racist concept whether Steve Bannon/Donald Trump advocate for it, or whether Michael McDowell and Jackie Healy Rae advocate for it. It is exclusionary to the point of making the thing into a blood test.

    That whole thing was an American polling expert hired by FF and the PDs to keep them in Government and do something cheap and nasty to win the support of the 80% least intelligent part of the electorate. Michael McDowell came on morning Ireland a couple of days before and told lies about the experience in maternity hospitals (2 of the Masters of the Maternity hospitals denied having spoken to him or made the points he reflected). The FF machine around here went into NF and BNP levels of targeting, when they knocked on my door they were asking me about if there were a lot of foreigners in the area. I know that it died down after that, but in 2019 didn't the law get changed again, and it didn't need a referendum?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭enricoh


    And there we have it folks- the 80 odd % that voted yes have lower intelligence that those that voted no in the referendum!

    Now in future let's just leave it to the Ivana baciks and sorcha pollaks of this country as they know best. Dumb paddy can't be trusted to get it right everytime, the gay marriage and abortion results are a bit of an anomaly tho- the least intelligent must have been busy those days!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    The degree of arrogance in this post is stunning. Just listen to yourself; the ‘least intelligent 80% of the electorate’. At least you’re entirely unambiguous in your contempt for the Irish people.

    I consider myself reasonably intelligent. I voted for the birthright citizenship amendment. Our asylum laws were blatantly subverted by women arriving from West Africa, at an advanced stage of pregnancy, to avail of the unintended jus soli citizenship loophole.

    The overwhelming majority of the Irish electorate, proved themselves to be eminently sensible, in closing a migration path that was flagrantly abused for more than half a decade. If a similar referendum were conducted today, the result would be even more emphatic.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You did answer. You alluded that if you were racially abused by someone in ireland, then you would be justified in calling Ireland racist.


    Is that your stance?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You honestly don't expect a minority of people to be racist? That's just naive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭Luttrell1975


    I really love getting the appreciation. Let me put it pictorially for you, since you get upset so easy.

    The claim that there were droves of people arriving to exploit the jus solis was made by Michael McDowell. That was the lie, and the maternity hospitals clarified that. You bought it. You were had. The bill and act that McDowell rushed through the parliament on that basis was reformed in 2019 because it was unsafe and prejudicial. The jus sanguinis stayed in place all right, but the practical law to define how long you had to be here before you child could be born a citizen was fixed, simply because people weren't doing that in the numbers claimed.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,830 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    No I didn't. Can you just stick to what I say and not your feelings.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,830 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber



    How should the tone of your post be perceived as, friendly and open to discussion?


    🤣



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,830 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Fuckin hell you are really reaching there aren't you!

    That's a question the dunne. It is done to elicit an answer in a discussion. And that question didn't give any indication of my feelings.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    I’m not in the least upset. However, your crude little graphic doesn’t say much for your self-professed towering intellect.

    I don’t believe I was ‘had’. I made an informed choice to close the jus soli citizenship loophole, that was ruthlessly exploited by statistically significant numbers of migrants, seeking to circumvent our asylum process. Fortunately, the overwhelming majority of my fellow citizens agreed with my reading of the situation and sent a resounding message that this migration channel should be shut. That decision continues to hold true today, with some minor amendments.

    If you cast your mind back to the early 00’s, 20% of all births in the Rotunda and Holles Street were the progeny of recently arrived asylum seekers. The masters of both maternity hospitals highlighted this fact on several occasions in the media, also flagging the crisis scenarios they were dealing with, as heavily pregnant African women presented themselves at the hospitals.

    Like I said, the Irish electorate made an eminently sensible decision to end this situation and restore order to inward migration. It’s a testament to the logic and practicality of the Irish people. Long may it continue.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'd ask anyone to look over that particular line of discussion and in that particular context, try and get any other meaning from your line of questioning and your bizarre reasoning.

    It was very clear you were attempting to argue that Ireland was racist because there are racists in Ireland.

    You have shown you have no interest in conversation. You only want to inflame and accuse people and backtrack when your inconsistencies are pointed out. *see previous replies from other posters.*

    But if that's what floats your boat, have at it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭Luttrell1975


    There was no crude graphic. That's a true representation of the mental capacities of people who just hate other races. You don't mean to tell me that the well educated 20% were the dumb ones?

    Anyhoo - this is just to show you that you are still living under a lie. Maybe you WANT to believe it.... is that the case?





  • Registered Users Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    Isn’t it a sign of low intelligence to generalize a stat-sig cohort of the human race? Let’s say 20% - 25% of people harbor less than favorable views of other races. Do you honestly think that all of them unanimously suffer from reduced mental capacity? Whilst I don’t agree with their views, I feel confident in asserting that many ‘racists’ are likely to be reasonably intelligent. I made this point earlier in the thread. Racism is not confined to a particular socio-economic or IQ cohort. It’s fairly evenly distributed across the entire population. However, those with higher levels of education are more adept at obfuscating their views. Surely somebody with your towering intellect is capable of understanding this, rather than the simplistic, binary thinking you’ve displayed to date.

    So there was no correlation between the astronomical growth in asylum seeking between 1999-2004 and the jus soli citizenship loophole? Equally, it was purely coincidental that the numbers of asylum seekers fell off a cliff after 2005? I believe what the data tells me. The loophole acted as a pull factor for large numbers of dubious characters to land on the shores of this country to initiate spurious asylum claims. After the Irish people voted in overwhelming numbers to rectify that oversight, the stream of asylum applications regressed to the natural mean. I trust the data and the resultant positive outcome for this country. As indeed do 80% of my fellow citizens.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If you think 80% of a populations views are wrong or illegitimate then you can’t really call yourself a democrat. It’s a pretty significant majority.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    Indeed. That 80% figure is the most resounding referendum result ever delivered by the Irish electorate. It far exceeds the margins by which the SSM and 8th amendment referenda were passed.



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,552 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Thread closed as I deal with a number of reports



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,552 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    RobbieTheRobber threadbanned

    A number of you are pretty close to a similar sanction

    If you cannot be civil, do not post

    Thread re-opened, for now

    Any questions, PM me - do not respond to this post in-thread



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,488 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Yes....There are racists in every country, including Ireland.. But Ireland as a country is not racist...

    this state / country / us as Irish people bend over backwards and do without ourselves to house, finance, provide healthcare for - medical cards in the majority of cases, provide jobs and training for.....and ensure the wellbeing and welfare of tens of thousands of people of varying ethnic backgrounds from different countries....

    if THAT is racist ? Ehhhh no, it isn’t... not close...we are not racist as people and the state, the workings and machinations of it are not close to being racist....



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