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The Irish protocol.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭votecounts


    How is Republican Culture more provocative than Unionism, when every July there is at least 10 Bonfires burning tricolors especially near peacelines, can't think anything more provocative than that. Anywhere else in the civilised world, the organisers and attendees would be charged with a hate crime. But hey, nationalists are the the ones always at fault.

    Out of curiousity can you think of any changes that the Unionist Community would have to make to live peacefully or is it all to be done by one side.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Taliyah Massive Ax


    "Out of curiousity can you think of any changes that the Unionist Community would have to make to live peacefully or is it all to be done by one side"

    Good question - what do you think they should change ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭votecounts


    Maybe unionist politicians should condemn the burning of the Irish Flag on bonfires and explain to the community why it is wrong

    Enact the ILA

    Tell the younger population to maybe get an education rather burning buses or rioting at the drop of a hat.

    Have parades to celebrate the 12th but not use them to taunt or intimidate the Nationalist community

    Recognise there is huge benefits for NI to increase Cross Border or EU Trade so the protocol is a good thing.

    Get rid of GSTQ for any NI Teams to incoroprate inclusiveness

    Have some Unionist Politicians attend commemorations to the Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy Massacre, Pat Finucane, etc and maybe apologise for saying they were terrorists in th past

    Just a few off the top of my head



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    An Irish identity is a threat to being in the union. If people were proud of being irish then they would not mind being independent from the union. To stop this identity growing unionists need to delude themselves that they are not Irish even tho they are from Ireland which factually makes them Irish.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭maebee




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  • Registered Users Posts: 466 ✭✭Mr Bumble


    Just as hard core unionists would be stranded in a UI, so too would hard core republicans. If there is no cause, there is nothing to fight about and no excuse to continue. If they persist they would be dealt with by the State, as before.

    The idea that "certain republicans" won't agree to certain changes is part of the same narrative that allows the DUP to mutter in their soup that Ireland is a provo country or dissident republicans to tell themselves they are the true Gaels.

    Green herring. So what if they don't like a new Ireland and are forced to behave like normal people. They won't stop the majority voting for a reasonable and fair arrangement.

    You seem to believe that "certain republicans" have some hold over Ireland. They do not. They never have. We put many of them in jail.

    The Irish Times poll clearly shows that Irish people south of the border want to take a careful, moderate approach to a UI, even if the questions asked were very Irish Times. "Would you like a tax increase" being a particular beauty.

    I note that you, like downcow, appear to see this as a scorecard.

    I can guess but don't "know" what is provocative to anyone in NI because I'm not from there and have never lived there.

    I would also guess that most people could live without the flags, murals, parades if it meant a permanent settlement on the island. Make the 12th a bank holiday and watch opposition melt.

    I can't understand why you always focus on the extremes of the debate, diametrically opposed positions which can never be resolved. You can't make progress at the edge of a cliff.

    Ireland is not a provo country and NI is not a terrorist state.

    The people you mostly talk about are old men now and the things they did were horrific. It was a war. Nasty **** things, wars.

    It's future, if it is to be peaceful, will be decided by moderate people who don't hate anyone and never have, not by SF/FF/FG/DUP/TUV/Tories or paramilitaries



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,035 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    'Reasonable point Fionn', says unreasonable person who then constructs random list of whataboutery.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    He is simply trying to look strong despite the UK government having ignored them (again). No matter what Donaldson says now, it won't make a difference - still no harm in making it look to your followers that you're fighting your corner against the Irish enemy



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    You'd almost forget he's leader of the DUP he's been so ineffective.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    I presume he's competing for voters who might otherwise be attracted to Jim Allister and the TUV.

    This is a sector of the Unionist vote who aren't overly concerned about actually achieving anything, or influencing the course of events; their priority is performative and confrontational assertion of their identity and values. It doesn't bother then that this marginalises them in the wider political process; in fact they find it strangely comforting — if everyone is opposed to them then they must be the righteous minority. On the contrary, when people start agreeing with them they feel very insecure and uncertain of themselves.

    It's no accident that their foundation myth is a siege, in which they are the besieged.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,154 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Jeffery Donaldson is trying to make it to an election still defending the Union but this whole Protocoil thing is beginning to look like a done deal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    He wants the appearance of defending the union, at the cost of not pursuing any measure which might actually defend the union, it seems to me.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The Protocol was a done deal back when Johnson signed it and celebrated it and the rest of the TCA as his present to the country and described it as "a deal to give certainty to businesses and travellers, and all investors in our country from next year."

    Isn't it terrible how the unionist politicians seem to want to defy the will of the British people and their elected government?



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Donaldson is leaving his dream career as an MP in 'The Mother of all Parliaments' in the capital of the Empire to come back to the arse-end of nowhere to collapse Stormont? Nah, not buying it.

    Wee Jeff is coming back in an attempt to keep Unionism in Ireland relevant at all. Wiser DUP heads know that if power-sharing fails then their little Protestant/Unionist project has failed and what replaces it will not be nearly as generous to Unionist sensitivities.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,154 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    How many ultimata is that now?



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,154 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The Donaldson Ultimatum 206 in cinemas now! 😁



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,679 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    That's nice, Jeffrey. You had your chance. Rattle away at your cage, I'm sure the hardcore of your voting base will love it; the rest of NI seems too pragmatic to fall for this craven toadying towards a master who doesn't care for your welfare.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,935 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    You'd feel sorry for Sefcovic having to waste time with the DUP's (and maybe also could extend that to NI's) bullshit and nonsense.

    What's opportunity cost of one of the more important EU commissioners having to babysit them endlessly? Would they ever belt up and go away for a while? Maybe bellyache to Johnson and Lord Frost instead (for not doing the DUP bidding & kicking off a trade war)? It's their Brexit. They are running it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,154 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Grassey


    No you are wrong... that's just common negotiating practice(or something)... never set out your stall too early... make mad demands and meet in the middle... statesmanehsip of the highest order... this is a win for NI because the EU caved on medicines..... bad bits awahhhaaaayyyyy.... good bits yahhhhaaaayyyy.... something



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    So we're yet again pretty much back to where we were. Good jesus. Unionism is exhausting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 537 ✭✭✭Speedline


    Its probably killing a certain cohort that small countries like Ireland and Malta will benefit from the medicines agreement too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,154 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Well yes we are, but the UK has humiliated itself some more and Unionism looks more rudderless and powerless.



  • Registered Users Posts: 352 ✭✭Snugbugrug28


    Command paper or no command paper, the UK probably never really intended to get rid of the ECJ, it was a high anchor to make everything below it seem more palatable.

    Bojo should be gone soon and it will be interesting to see the approach taken by a new PM that didn't agree to it and can blame their predicament on someone else's botched deal.

    Also...where's DC?



  • Registered Users Posts: 352 ✭✭Snugbugrug28




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  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Taliyah Massive Ax


    "Lord Dodds says UK ‘falling into line’ with EU and retreating from commitment to trigger article 16"

    lol, certainly noone saw that coming

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/18/furious-response-from-dup-over-northern-ireland-protocol



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