3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

Then, as now, nobody in the NS found it funny either.

Most navies carry a larger crew than civilian ships, we aren't unique in that.

Who says it's a declared SAR asset? It's an offshore ERRV! Don't expect to see that zipping down the irish sea away from its working area off Aberdeen, to assist a trawler on fire. Also, how many crew does it really have? This type operated month on/month off and has numerous relief crew available too, not to mention, when it needs running repairs, it goes to the shipyard, and another ship takes its place.

The NS rarely have this luxury.

Not sure I could agree with that.

L.E Roisin came out of Mid Life earlier this year (Built 1999) and serious substantial structural work had to be done to the superstructure to permit access to the engine room space. It was still done. It's detailed in the DF Podcast, if anyone wants to have a listen.

L.E. Niamh is going through a similar refit now, and has already spent far less time in the Drydock. The term "beyond economical repair" is a bit of a misnomer when it comes to ships. If the hulls are expected to have a life of 30 years and after 20 years you see that the entire structure, the foundation of the ship, needs to be replaced, then it is beyond economical repair. However when it comes to internal plant, it would not be unusual, even late in life, to cut a large hole in the side, remove the old machine, install the new one. The ships cost about €50m each. Only if the repairs cost more than that would they be considered uneconomical to repair. i.e. it would be cheaper to replace them.

Both ships of this type have a major weakness in terms of fuel consumption. They don't loiter well. But that isn't an issue for their present role.

The fleet as it stands:

P31: In service since 1984, due for replacement, will probably not go to sea again. There is nobody still serving in the NS who were her first crew. The current FOCNS joined the NS as she was being built.

P41 & P42: Bought 2nd hand in 1988, also due for replacement. Be honest, these have been used to death. They owe us nothing.

Replacement for the above is already in advanced planning stage, well discussed.

P51 & P52, built 1999 & 2001. No plans for replacement yet, another decade of life expected. Commission on defence forces may decide their future.

P61, P62, P63 & P64: All delivered between 2013 & 2018. Expected to be in service for at least 30 years. A great ship but offer very little over the P50, apart from fuel efficiency and sea-keeping. Has great potential if the sensors it was designed for are ever fitted.

Yeah that is undoubtedly bullshyt. Eithne, Orla and Ciara are no doubt at the end of their service life and should all be taken out of service permanently at this stage, or as soon as two or more 30-man littoral ships are sourced for the Irish Sea. We are also expecting enhanced harbour security and inshore craft before long which will need crewing.

The P50s are in their mid life upgrade programme, as planned, and the P60s are barely run-in.

Yes I suppose thats the idea. But I would say that as there aren't much more than 100 personnel in the NSR as we speak, there is no way the resources are there to crew, operate and support even a scattering of inshore boats on a permanent basis from within the reserve. They will require some assignment of manpower and facilities from the NS to be worth the bother acquiring them at all.

The boats will have a crew of no more than 4. There will be 4 of them. Finding crew won't be an issue.

They won't be used exclusively by the Naval reservists.

Its fantasy fleet from the NS brass. Safe to ignore it.

Yes, but some of our aims are getting better.

For a 12 ship navy, 8 patrol vessels, 2 Absalon Class Multi Role Frigates, 1 Dive vessel like New Zealand and 1 ETV seems entirely sensible

Any 12 ship formation is a Santa ask.

To be honest buy anything is the easy bit - crewing , operating and maintaining is always going to be the expensive bit ...

Also is there a need for a 12 ship navy ? I mean we've 6 opvs - do we need 6 ? Do we need more ? ( Accepting that theres always maintenance/refits on going ) , if 2 peacock replacements turn up should we have 3 or 4 of those and a couple less opvs ?

Having 1 multirole vessel sounds great , but you only get it if you need it ,and what if you need it while it's on maintenance ? Should there be 2 ?

Do we even need a naval service ? Does iceland fair better ( or worse) with it's coastgaurd ?

If Capital spending on the Df was "easy" then even with the crisis manpower issues the DF would be a different animal even now. Circa 100 million a year isn't going to cut it even if we got yearly repayment plans for everything we wanted, sure as hell not if we even went with a bare bones equipped frigate or two.

Hard to argue with that. The DoD are the worst of all offenders for handing back budget.

And its actually a worse sin than going over.

Underspent budget isn't an accounting problem, its a management problem, especially with the consistency you mention.

And that gets to the heart of the problem. Will the Commission on Defence address our dysfunctional Department of Defence and the horrific relationship between the DoD and the military brass, who are not without their own dysfunction.

I think we know that in the short time it has existed, that is almost impossible. And if they can't, then everything else they put on paper in redundant.