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Formula 1 Round 22 Abu Dhabi GP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭guyfo




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,098 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I don't watch much F1 anymore. This clown show wouldn't encourage me back to it either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,611 ✭✭✭quokula


    The safety car was on the lap Latifi crashed. They didn't choose what lap he'd crash on.

    If a single car is stopped on track where it can't quickly be recovered and there isn't a massive amount of debris or other reason to completely stop the race, you bring a safety car out. This is completely normal and it would be unprecedented to not do this.

    Backmarkers are allowed to unlap themselves when there is a safety car. This is completely normal since the rule was introduced a few years and it would be unprecedented to not do this.

    Once the accident is cleared, the safety car goes back in and the race resumes. This is also completely normal. Traditionally, when it is close to the end of the race, the race director always prioritises getting the race going again as soon as the incident is clear so that the race can finish under green flags, sometimes meaning they have to compress things a little bit and get racing again, in this case before all of the backmarkers were cleared. This isn't completely out of the ordinary and the rules are clear about the race director having the authority to call in the safety car whenever they deem it safe, regardless of where the backmarkers happen to be.

    Nothing untoward happened behind the safety car, Red Bull were lucky but it's a standard part of F1 and they made the most of it. Mercedes could have changed tyres but chose not to and to focus their efforts on trying to lobby the race director not to let the race restart instead - they've had much success lobbying the race director previously, who even asked Verstappen to give up a position at the last race despite admitting he hadn't even looked at the incident - but in this case normal procedures were followed rather than succumbing to Toto's pressure. The only thing that the FIA did wrong was the terrible communication.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Just watched the restart, would it have been different if Sainz had been directly behind Verstappen instead of Riccardo? Sainz was stuck behind 2 lapped cars, maybe things wouldn't have been different but again something we will never know because of that flawed restart



  • Registered Users Posts: 39 Just Some Young Lad


    You’re right that we’ll never know. However, judging by the deltas from the last lap the FIA determined that in a utopian world that Max would have won.

    This data was available to them and was part of their explanation and reasoning for dropping the appeal. You can see proof of it in the letter published by Merc on their official Twitter after the meeting.

    Controversial? Yes. More controversial than the Schumacher/Hill collision? No. These people saying that this kind of controversy will stop them from tuning in to future races haven’t been following very long it seems.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    No he wouldn't have, the Delta's of the last lap would have consisted of RB on fresh soft tyes and MB on old hard tyres. MB were all over RB on same(ish) age tyres, without the shennanigans of that restart RB hadn't a chance, and also denying Sainz a shot at 1st or 2nd by having him restart behind 2 cars.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,753 ✭✭✭oceanman


    that happened before with benneton.........they were found out though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,441 ✭✭✭Harika


    To the lighter side. Austrian commentators on the last lap. Pointing out that the moderator mentioned use of drs three times and get corrected twice. In case you wonder if crofty saying nonsense is normal



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,562 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    He was complaining about that too completely ignoring how he lucked out at Imola and Silverstone



  • Registered Users Posts: 723 ✭✭✭tigerboon


    Mercedes did pick a good strategy though. If the normal safety car procedure was ran then they would have won. The original decision was to keep the backmarkers in place and restart. Mercedes didn't argue with this either. Masi basically put Max on Hamilton's tail pipe knowing he had a huge advantage even though Max had already gained massively under the safety car.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,562 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203




  • Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭TefalBrain




  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Many would argue that the FAI were pulling strings against Max for much of the season, including at the start of the race.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,827 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    Alright Mystic Meg, it was playing out as expected, the pace advantage was as I said it was. Verstappen had to lap a second quicker than Hamilton before the unpredictable safety car. Don't be an ass hat.



  • Registered Users Posts: 36,255 ✭✭✭✭SlickRic


    Can we all stop saying this? It makes it sound like Max did something truly miraculous.

    Red Bull was better up until Silverstone. Mercedes was better after that.

    Max deserves the title, but they each had turns at having the slightly better equipment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Max came in for a 3rd pit stop right at the last safety car right? Can't remember.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    The FAI are corrupt clowns but don't think they had a a hand in any of this.



    On a serious point. The people who argue that or vice versa can look at a season in which both drivers got decisions their way that didn't seem fair.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,140 ✭✭✭✭ctrl-alt-delete


    He did yeah, he had his first pitstop from soft to hards, got fresh hards under the VSC and then softs again under the Safety car.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,140 ✭✭✭✭ctrl-alt-delete


    I think it is fair to say both have had decisions go for and against them over the season and that is racing. It will take someone better than me to try and work out has it balanced out - which is what everyone says happens, on the face of it I'd say it did.

    I'm not best qualified as I can't describe myself as a neutral, I wanted Max to win.

    It is annoying me on BBC Breakfast this morning, the narrative that they are pushing - basically that it was a farce and that Lewis was robbed. At least they had Eddie Jordan on who reminded them of the first lap incident. The main thing I took from his interview though was that he says "Safe-i-dee Car"



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭BillyHasMates


    The stewards have been inconsistent on the giving out of penalties all season, but in their defence I do think the sport has too many rules and possible penalties to enforce. Masi has been under tremendous pressure, particularly over the last 2 races. I can imagine he has a very difficult job when there is so many instances to judge and rule on in the heat of a championship battle, and on top of that you have whinging kids like Wolff and Horner constantly in your ear while the likes of Sky get to listen in to some of it. Masi very well may need replacing but I think FIA could do with having less penalties to enforce and reviewing how teams get to interact with the race director.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 55,601 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Agreed. Doesn’t at all seem like sport.

    Maybe they should change rules where leading car maintains say 50 percent of his advantage..



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭McFly85


    I disagree. Masi should have probably restarted the race without having half the back markers unlap themselves, but if he did that then there probably would have been 2 laps at the end instead of one, with Max on fresher tyres, and most of those cars getting out of his way pretty much as soon as they can, so I think Max probably still wins in that scenario.

    Mercedes choosing track position at all times, alongside the bad luck of the late safety car, and to be fair, Checos brilliant hold up driving against Hamilton are what cost them the race.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55,601 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Awful lot of armchair critics slating the race director. It is an extremely tough job, as well as a very dynamic and complex job.

    shoulda done this, that, the other. What about this rule, that rule, his rule, their rule blah blah blah..

    it is not an exact science, and you can bet no matter what the stewards and race director decide, they will still be slated by armchair critics.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,970 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    Brilliant, looked like Max almost lost it on the last bend.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,507 ✭✭✭recyclebin


    The rules around safety cars are pretty straightforward but he didn't follow them. So now we end up in this mess with an appeal hanging over the result.

    Is there anything in the rules to get the race result changed though? I don't think Mercedes really think they can win this one but what they can do is make sure someone is accountable and come next season then everyone knows what the rules are.



  • Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Toto and the higher ups in Mercedes have really shown themselves up in a bad light.

    Mercedes won the constructors championship and there wasn’t one tweet from them yesterday acknowledging all the hard work of the pit team or the team back at the factory. That has to be demoralising.

    Lewis was very gracious in his defeat.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭geotrig


    I'm neither a fan a massive of Verstappen or Hamilton. Both drivers have matured a lot, Verstappen has toned down the dangerous lunging (I know some wont agree) and Hamilton has learned to accept defeat somewhat overall he was gracious and while gutted congratulated Max.

    Horner and toto are both dicks for the most part when things don't go there where and both are insufferable , but like a few have said I've felt Toto's anger outbursts are bad optics for the sport in general and need to be dealt with they are all too regular this year.

    Enjoyed that race and think the right Driver won the championship this season eventually like him or loath him he was the best driver this year. Hamiliton showed that he had a lot of pace left in his tires but max positioned himself well to cover lewis once he got passed.

    I do think they should clarify in the rules that where possible(unless serious safety concern) a race should not finish on a safety car and could be extended a lap or 2 to cover this.

    This year has highlighted a few things that where probably left alone for far too long and need to be addressed going forward.

    track limits -- are getting abused by all more and more ,either gravel traps or some speed restriction software to come into affect once so far off track.

    race end-- race shouldnt end on a safetly car unless for serious safety concerns.

    on track racing , not everything has to result in a penalty



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,396 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    "The rules around safety cars are pretty straightforward but he didn't follow them"

    He is the race director, and can call in the Safety car when HE decides - thats a rule also.

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,693 ✭✭✭✭klose


    Thought as much myself! Not Hamiltons biggest fan but it would have been easy for him to storm off and refuse interviews etc but he didn't and like you say was gracious in defeat.


    Toto definitely has come out the end of this in a bit of a negative light for me especially after getting on the blower to Masi to not give a safety car when there was a vsc for giovanazzi I think was parked up? Really unsporting to be trying to coerce decisions from officials.

    After sleeping on all this they really should have just red flagged the session when latifi binned it, it was always gonna be a majorly tight call to get the race restarted under safety car. That would have pacified everyone I think.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,945 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    The last race is not a final that's not how a league works. A bad decision on day 1 counts the same as on the last day



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