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Formula 1 Round 22 Abu Dhabi GP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    If this was Race 1 and not race 22 there wouldn't be any hysteria about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,699 ✭✭✭✭SlickRic


    Why should no race end under a safety car? Where is that in the rules?

    Yes, it needs to be looked at, but as the rules stand, there is no reason why it can't.

    Mercedes, I'd assume, thought Hamilton would take care of the tyres well enough to get to the end ahead of Max. And they were correct. And I'd assume they made the calculation, once the crash happened, that the race director couldn't fairly restart the race before the allotted amount of laps. Therefore, no tyre change.

    Masi warped the rules in order to allow a one lap shootout where Lewis may as well have been on 3 wheels against Max. That's just a fact.

    Yes, the race ended in a race. But it wasn't really a race. Hamilton was never going to hold Max off on those tyres in that situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 466 ✭✭Probes


    Personally I feel the stewarding has been a shitshow all season. Max deserves the title, he benefited from the final stewarding decision, but it wasn’t that single decision that shaped the entirety of the championship. Rules and stewarding need to be simplified and clarified, but Red Bull made the right choice at the end and Mercedes didn’t. That’s all there is to it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 466 ✭✭Probes




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭jammiedodgers


    Mercedes set to abort appeal according The Times.

    Mercedes are considering aborting their plan to launch a further appeal against the controversial result of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.

    Lewis Hamilton’s team are moving towards putting the reputation of the sport before their desire to see their driver crowned world champion for the eighth time.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,397 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    So you are certain that if Hamilton had pitted under SC, he could have overtaken Max (who had also pitted not too distantly ago). There is no chance max pits if Lewis does, so Merc are giving up track position in a situation where in any other race, the race finishes under Safety car.

    Maybe Hamiltion should have pitted under the VSC, and assume that Max would not, giving him those laps to over take - but had he done that would max on softer tyres at the very end not still have had an advantage?

    All well and good saying RB got it right and Merc wrong when you see how it played out - but Hamilton was comfortably going to win the race until the last safety car, and if proper process had been followed he still would have won, and deserved to have done so. In both instances, Max had nothing to lose by pitting, Hamilton did. In both instances RB only had to do the opposite of Merc.

    Acting like Merc got it wrong because they didn't anticipate (1) the safety car (maybe they should have) and (2) Masi throwing the rules out the window in the name of 'entertainment' (BS) is rubbish, imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,557 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Its not bizarre. Its perfectly within the rules to allow cars to unlap themselves under a safety car and also within the rules for the race director to bring in the Safety car whenever he wants.

    The race director and Red Bull followed the rules. Mercedes are trying to use the rules selectively.

    Mercedes made a balls of their pitstop strategy and now are crying about it. Fair play to Hamilton, he accepted the defeat. But Toto Wolff is the biggest crybaby and sore loser in F1 history, throwing his headset around every time something went against him.

    That he wants this decided by lawyers is a new low for F1 and the sport could do without people like that. What next? Lawyers in the paddock watching every move? Leave it to Wolff to turn the most exciting finish in history and a badly needed shot in the arm for the sport into one of the most boring finishes.

    Anyone who wanted this to finish under a safety car is not a proper F1 fan.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Checo also had DRS, which Hamilton didn’t have.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,352 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    I wonder has Kallenius told Toto to cop onto himself?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,747 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    that wasnt an exciting finish. anything but. anyway wonder what 22 will bring

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,557 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Final races like this tend to attract fans and media who are clueless about F1 rules and who shout "Foul" when they don't understand the rules.

    Here's the rules explained:

    [quote]

    The stewards ruled that article 48.12 cited by Mercedes “may not have been applied fully” but in their view “article 48.13 overrides that”, and so Masi’s decision to summon the Safety Car in took precedence.

    “Once the message ‘Safety Car in this lap’ has been displayed, it is mandatory to withdraw the Safety Car at the end of that lap,” they added.

    The stewards dismissed Mercedes’ request to amend the result of the race to reflect the standings at the end of the penultimate lap, before Verstappen passed Hamilton, stating it would be “effectively shortening the race retrospectively, and hence not appropriate.”

    [/quote]

    Verstappen keeps win and championship as stewards reject both Mercedes protests – RaceFans

    Masi and RedBull followed the rules.

    Mercedes wanted the race to end on lap 57. Its like a soccer team asking for a game to end on 85 minutes when they are a goal up.

    I'll let you decide who are trying to bend the rules.

    As for Hamilton going off the track on the first lap, he gained about 2 seconds from it. In the previous race, Verstappen was asked to give up first place for something similar, so why wasn't Hamilton asked to give up first place also? Another example of Mercedes choosing the rules selectively. They don't have a leg to stand on. They messed up their pitstops towards the end. Pitstops are crucial in tight F1 races.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,649 ✭✭✭RoryMac


    Any examples of previous times the race director has allow certain cars to unlap themselves and others not? And any examples of the safety car being called in immediately after the lapped cars pass rather than on the next lap?

    Don't get me wrong I was delighted at the time and am delighted Max won and I certainly didn't want to see if end under a SC but it was a decision that looked to be based purely on appealing to the huge numbers watching rather than previously understood procedure imo



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,527 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Daimler/Mercedes are very wary of their image right now with the whole emissions scandal and don't need Toto Wolff dragging the Mercedes brand through the mud. I'm sure the execs in HQ in Stuttgart don't want this headache.



  • Administrators Posts: 55,165 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Probably a stupid question, but how come laps that are behind a safety car are counted toward the race? As in, if the car is out for 2/58 laps then you race until 60 laps.

    Is it cause of tyres / engine conditions? Or would it give an advantage to chasing cars to get a free pit then a few extra laps?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,527 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    The cars are fuelled for the race distance with little or no margin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,352 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Fuel.


    Formula E tried this last year (not counting safety car laps) and in a race most of the cars ran out of power trying to complete those extra laps at the end.



  • Administrators Posts: 55,165 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    And I guess the problem is there wouldn't be enough time to refuel every car in the pits if there's only 1 or 2 safety laps?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,626 ✭✭✭McFly85


    One thing I'll say about this is it's always a more difficult decision for the lead car. Look at Lando in the Russian GP this year. He decided to stay out because he didn't want to give up track position. Lewis pitted as it was essentially a free hit for him.

    Mercedes absolutely gambled by leaving Lewis out. And I have to say he was incredibly unlucky. But the difference between some cars unlapping themselves no cars doing it isn’t the defining reason he lost the race.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,352 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Theres no refueling allowed in F1.


    Cars start the race with the fuel they need and thats it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    Merc did anticipate a safety car. Not too long before it happened there was comms broadcast between Lewis and Bonno discussing what tyre to pit for in the event of a safety car and Lewis said either work fine (M or H) So clearly it was something they were thinking about.



  • Administrators Posts: 55,165 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Oh. You can tell I haven't watched it in a long time!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,557 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    I don't have to give you examples.

    People are complaining about rules and when you point out some admittedly obscure rules of F1, they complain about something else or try to focus selectively on the rules like Mercedes are doing.

    There are a lot of rules to F1, hundreds if not thousands.

    But the over-arching one appears to be that that race director has the final say. This is the main one. F1 races happen at over 100 miles an hour. Race Directors have to think fast and on their feet.

    Masi was within the rules to pull in the safety car whenever he wanted. Everything after that is probably secondary. The reason for allowing cars unlap themselves is so they don't get in the way of the front runners competing. This is perfectly fair and within the rules as is pitting under a safety car.

    If they allow pitting under a safety car, then they have to allow cars to unlap, otherwise it puts the second car at a huge disadvantage.

    Mercedes complaining about rules not being followed is massive sore loser stuff.

    Even with the safety cars and cars unlapping Hamilton had a number of chances to win the race, particularly on the final lap. He had the straighline speed. But he always wants to go on the outside rather than risk going on the inside and in fairness Max put him out there. Verstappen is a better driver imo in a slightly inferior car.

    There's been little mention of Hamiltons gaining a huge advantage on the first lap. And as for Mercedes sticking a new engine in the car every so often, taking the 5 place penalty but gaining almost a second a lap on everyone else, it makes a mockery of fairness.

    The problem with Mercedes is they like to have F1 titles handed to them on a plate with a huge advantage and to have it practically sown up mid season. With a massive budget, all they are doing is buying titles left right and centre. Great for them, but terminal for the sport of F1.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,237 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    How come there's no refueling anymore? Are engines that much more efficient?

    I feel there's far more strategic planning required by allowing refueling. Allows more multi pit strategies. All pits are extremely quick now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 466 ✭✭Probes


    No, I’m not certain. That’s not important though, these sort of decisions win or lose races and Mercedes made the wrong decision. It doesn’t matter if I say that with hindsight or not.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    You were complaining about Hamilton wanting to do better for the environment and calling him a hypocrite and you’re now saying they should bring back refuelling.

    Couldn't make it up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,557 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Mostly from a health and safety point of view, they don't refuel anymore. You don't really want to rush a fuel stop and there was plenty of examples of it going haywire.

    Also the cost - pit teams having to dress in fire retardant gear, practising etc.

    They've put bigger tanks in the cars now and lengthened the cars to take them. Personally I don't miss the refueling. And some drivers ran out of fuel on the lap while trying to gain an advantage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,026 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Don't have to give examples? Thats convenient.

    Incredible that people can twist themselves in knots to fanwank away what Masi did. He was completely wrong, he bastardised the rules to engineer a finish and he should not have done it.

    Its done, Verstappen is champion and that won't be changing. But Masi acted inappropriately and Mercedes are damn right to feel aggrieved about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭thefallingman


    The result doesn't sit right with me at all and i'm a big fan of both drivers and F1, Horner seemed to influence what happened in getting the race going again which doesn't seem right but i'm sure Toto would probably have done the same.

    But that's F1, there's a history of dodgy calls and decisions and i guess max is the more marketable F1 star going forward, coincidence ? i'm not sure. One thing is for sure, the gloves will really be off next year.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    The irony being it was an incident with Hamilton being released with the fuel hose still attached which resulted in it being banned during the race!



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