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Can my landlord increase rent if it is already way above market price?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,548 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,598 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    Are you sure? The instructions on the RTB website still say that "The rent amount being set should not be more than that of local market rents for similar properties" but maybe that's not actually in the legislation?

    Rent Reviews in a Rent Pressure Zone (RPZ) | Residential Tenancies Board (rtb.ie)



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Why did you agree to pay €200 above market rate if there were cheaper available properties?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Local market does not just mean the building you are in. It sounds like the landlord kept the rent lower on longer term tenants which they can do . Not clear if the landlord own the entire building but they are no obliged to rent cheaper to you. It appears it was worth it to you at the time and as you can't find another place it still appears to be worth it.

    I don't think you have any grounds to dispute the rent. You sound like you feel hard done by but would you feel that way if you were unaware of the rent others are paying in the building? How do you know what the others are paying? I know people who lied about the rent they were paying to other tenants just to annoy the landlord via another tenant or just out of simple mischief.



  • Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭Orlak2410


    Because I was desperate to find somewhere and there was no other properties advertised in the building at the time. It was not until months after that very similar properties in the same building were advertised for around 200 less



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  • Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭Orlak2410


    Yes but the same building is more accurate in determining a market price than similar properties in the area. No nothing to do with long term tenants the rent that is 200 less was for other properties in the same building advertised after I moved in but also from what I’ve heard from existing tenants. Yes the landlord owns the entire building and a few other buildings in the area. Just because I was desperate to find somewhere and can’t find somewhere else, doesn’t justify me paying an unfair higher rent rate than other tenants.



  • Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭Orlak2410


    If it says it on the website which after reading that link, it does, they cannot say things like that without it being true.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,858 ✭✭✭growleaves


    @Jasper79 'There are more landlords stuck with under market value rents which is also unfair.'

    I thought they had all exited the market in a huff and only landlords charging higher rents were left?

    I could've sworn I read that on this forum at least 50,000 times.

    OP it's extremely doubtful they'll reverse the rent, close to zero chance. Shop around for a cheaper place, especially if you're not under time pressure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭Orlak2410


    I’m more concerned about stopping a rent increase since I’m here two years now and the landlord is allowed increase after two years



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Two years ago was pre-Covid, there was a period when rents dropped as people moved out/home. Rent increases are capped, if the LL is using the correct procedure to raise rent, then there is nothing you can do. Examples of rents in other properties listed today suffice, not what they were listed at a year ago when the other tenants in your building moved in.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    They can only increase rent to market rates and need to show the rent for three comparible dwellings in a similar area. If the landlord doesn't do that, you can ask the RTB for clarification. I dont know what part of the country you're in, but Dublin rents for similar type properties can be very different depending on where they're located.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    You are saying you can't find another place to rent in the area so the rent seems correct. If the landlord was renting at a lower price and in RPZ the rent can't be raised when a tenant leaves. Same building therfore doesn't reflect market rates. It may be that it is unfair the landlord has to rent to them less than you. Would you be happier if the other tenants paid more to be closer to your rent?

    Ultimately you decided to pay that rent when offered so your choice. You obviously felt you could afford it and it was worth it at the time. You wanted to know if you could do anything and you got an answer which is no. You can move and probably best you do if it annoys you that much. How would you feel if the landlord upped your rent by €200 after agreeing? You are trying to do the same so I am guessing your word is not your bond. Best move



  • Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭Orlak2410


    I can’t find another place because of the way the market has gone, too little supply and too much demand and when you’re up against professional couples that are willing to live in a bed sit you have no chance. Yes I would be happier because then my rent would be justified but it’s not justified when I am paying more than the rest it’s simply unfair. Anyway I was never looking for a rent decrease. My original question was could I stop an increase because my rent is already way above market price. If my landlord did have the audacity to attempt to raise my already extortionate rent and I disputed it, I was wondering if I could stop it and possibly get it reduced but my main objective would be to stop it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    He can raise the rent if it within market rates and you can do nothing. I see you are a nice person and would rather others pay more so you feel better. If there is too little supply and high demand then you are paying the correct rent. As I said the landlord could be forced to rent lower on other rentals which is actually the unfair bit on the landlord not you. You agreed to pay the rent and you have no proof it is below market rate just others are getting to rent cheaper. It does depend on whether RPZ is in play or not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Unfortunately the first sentence of your post justifies the cost of rent. If your apartment were rented today, the LL would probably get more for it than you are paying. Also, assuming the rent review is valid, the RTA legislation justifies the increase. Again, you appear to have rented pre-Covid, the others possibly after March 2020, lots of people, including many boardsies took advantage of increases in stock and lower rents to either negotiate a reduction, or move to better/cheaper accommodation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭Orlak2410


    Who determines the market rates? Because if it is within market rates how come the others are around 200 less? I’d rather pay less but I understand I cannot get a decrease but I will certainly contest an increase if it happens and use the fact that others are paying less in my defence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    The market.

    If they rented in 2020 then they may be paying what the market was then. When their review comes around, they no doubt will be paying more than now.

    You can dispute it, but if the LL can show similar properties at higher than you are saying, not much you can do about it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    You contest it all you like but as already stated rent can be lower around you and not be the market rate while you do pay the market rate and due an increase. You have a lot of misplaced anger and are refusing to listen. The others getting discounted rate does not make that the market rate. The people to be angry at is the government for creating the situation as as pointed out it is unfair on the landlord not you and you have also said you would be happier if others paid more. Instead you could be happy for them instead of being angry about not getting a discount. Best move as soon as you can because the situation is not going to change and the landlord has no obligation to move you to cheaper rent at any point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    OP you determined the market rent when you decided to rent for that price in the first place.

    Now the landlord can increase because as we all know rents are going up. Once they find 3 that are close enough to what they want to raise it to in the general area then they can raise it. It can also be raised higher than the 3 he finds, because otherwise market rent would never go up because if you are at the top of the market you are never going to find 3 that are higher. Some properties have to go up first in the market.

    And if it wasnt market rent then you would easily be able to find one at what you believe should be market rent, but you cant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭Orlak2410


    But I don’t think I am paying the market rate I believe I am paying way above. I have recently been to viewings of nice apartments in more desirable areas that are cheaper than mine. Again, I would prefer if I was paying less but how could I be happy for other tenants paying less especially when most of them are better off than me. I will continue to seek elsewhere but again I’m not looking for cheaper rent just want to stop a potential increase.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭Orlak2410


    Interestingly, rent seems to have not increased in the past two years for studios and one bedrooms which I am looking for. I know the market regulates itself but if a landlord sets rent way above market price knowing they will still get a tenant, is it the RTB that step in?



  • Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭Orlak2410


    I wasn’t aware of market rates at the time. I was desperate to find somewhere. Ever since, similar properties have been around 200 less. If they do find 3 properties, would size and location be taken into account? Because I’m pretty sure there are properties the same price in the area but they would be bigger and closer to the town.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,548 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    What you are asking about is immaterial in a way. The LL set the price last time. In an RPZ he is allowed to increase rent by the allowed rate from the calculator. I am not sure if he needs to find three similar properties to compare, however if he has to he can find them virtually anywhere. You can appeal it but you are highly unlikely to win

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    The regulations are clear, the LL is allowed to submit examples of rents being charged at the same level as the increased rate. Provided the review is valid, the fact that they have examples by definition means they are not charging “way above market price, the examples are an indicator of market price. There is no onus on the LL to submit examples of rents lower than yours.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭DubCount


    OP. Your idea of "Market rent" may be the apartment block you live in. The law is just not that specific. Anything in the general area can be used as a comparison.



  • Registered Users Posts: 693 ✭✭✭houseyhouse


    Market rent is not just the lowest rent you can find. It’s supposed to be what the market can bear. Do you think there are others who would pay your rent for your apartment? If yes, then it’s not above market rent. Now, of course the RPZ legislation means that many places are rented below market rent (ie they could be rented for more if not for the legislation) but that doesn’t automatically make yours overpriced.

    The other thing to remember is that increases are now limited to the lower of inflation or 2% per annum. So even if your landlord increases your rent, the increases will be at or lower than the rate of inflation. In real terms that means your rent is going down relative to everything else. It’ll still be higher than (some of) your neighbours though so you will just have to learn to live with that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    You have said you couldn't find any where but now you are saying you can in nicer areas and cheaper, take up the next one. You do understand that there are tons of people on much lower mortgage rates than a person can get a mortgage for now? So you have people living next door to each other with people paying double the mortgage of their neighbours. You don't understand what a market rate is and are unwilling to accept the explanations which is why you thinking you are paying above market rate does not matter you are simply wrong.

    If you can't be happy for somebody else's good luck and good fortune the problem is yours. Not sure how to point out how horrendous a view like that is. Why you want to pay more for a less desirable place is a mystery to me. It all sounds very inconsistent and mean natured.

    So to explain AGAIN, yes he can increase the rent and no you can't prevent it. Life is unfair you don't get to keep stamping your feet because you think it is unfair on you, it isn't it is unfair on the landlord. Cheaper rent in the same building does not mean market rate due to RPZ. Ignoring what people tell you is not going to change the situation you are in only moving will.



  • Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭Orlak2410


    He won’t find similar properties for the same price in my area anyway because they come up so seldomly and when they do they’re not as expensive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭Orlak2410


    If he can submit examples of properties similar to mine in the same area and for a similar price I would be happy enough then. Just because I can afford the rent does not mean I should be happy paying it. I have other things that I have to sacrifice because of my rent.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭Orlak2410


    know but I was just saying that it is a more accurate comparison. Surely location within the area and size of apartment should be considered. For example, I’m about a 30 minute walk to the suburban town I live within. If there was another studio in the area but located in the town and was bigger perhaps with a balcony for the same price, that’s hardly a similar apartment.



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