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United Ireland Poll - please vote

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,741 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So that's a no vote then.

    In the event of a majority vote what will you be doing to accommodate the end of partition?



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Who is whingeing? Not me.

    I grew up in a border town, a very republican border town, I have a lot of experience as to what is was like, and what it is like now. The fact that I need to see what further benefits there may be to a United Ireland is entirely justified.

    Things have improved beyond what I would have thought could ever happen back in the 80s early 90s, but what further benefits could there be?

    I understand the romantic notion, but in a realistic way, I haven't seen or heard of benefits to it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Fionn1952




  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Its not a no. It's something I would have to think very seriously about, should it come up.

    What do you mean by your question? What would I do in the event of a United Ireland? What would I have to do? If it happens, it happens, what do you think I should do?



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm not a 'partitionist ' which seems like an insult?

    Divine right? No, just a vote, same as everyone else.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Okay there's a vote for a UI in the north and the south votes 'no'... what then? Everyone goes 'ah well' and we go back to how it was the day before? No chance.

    There will be a UI declared by Republicans the moment a pro-UI vote happens in the north regardless of what transpires in the 26 counties. You think our TDs will return to The Dáil the day after partitionists 'win' and pretend that we haven't betrayed the vision for our country? That vision that's the basis of the anthem, the symbolism of the flag, the aspiration of The Proclamation, the centuries of struggle and sacrifice, all this gets sidelined and everyone pretends nothing happened?

    As I said, it's an alarming lack of forethought and embarrassing level of chauvinistic selfishness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,741 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    'It's something YOU have to think about', why are you looking for others to do your thinking and research for you? If your family and your friends cannot come up with a benefit, vote No. Or take a punt and vote yes, it might work out like the GFA for you and improve your life more than you 'ever thought'.

    I just want to know what you would do given you are always going on about accommodating unionists.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I would assume that before a vote happens that we would have taken any unionists views into account. I'm not one for making anybody live in a state that they are not happy in, I think we can all see how that worked out previously. I would like to think they we would be better this time around and that a United Ireland would accommodate everybody, to the best that it can.

    And I would like to see the exact plans and how it would work for everybody before a vote. And considering I'm from a republican town, fairly close to you francie, I would think, I don't need that much persuasion. There's a hell of a lot more people in the South need much more persuasion then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,741 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You can't and won't get a plan that tells you everything. That isn't practical, the GFA results for you, should tell you that. There are some things that cannot be foretold.

    There are also things that cannot be done until we are all one people - i.e. a properly democratic vote on flags and anthems. I think one way to deal with this is to decide it will be a new country rather than a takeover assimilation. The existing symbols get scratched on unification and new official ones put before the people after unification. Other constitutional matters can also only be settled by majority after unification.

    If we go the route of a new country then we can take the beneficial road of starting again in the areas we got wrong. Unionists have every right to involve themselves in that process and I am sure there will be those who will propose on behalf of unionism too, which is fine by me. As long as the decisions taken are majority ones and not appeasement then I see no reason why it won't work.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    And I agree to a certain extent, but the majority of people will need to know how most things will work before a vote. You can't rely on romanticism when it comes to people's money, and that's what it will boil down to, for a lot of people. I'm not talking personally here now. I love the way it is now, compared to when I was growing up, it is unrecognizable. I can park my car in my nearest big town, without having someone sitting in it! I know I won't be stopped in the road by armoured tanks and searched. It's great. But what will Change with a United Ireland? What is there for anyone?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,719 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox


    In the event of a no vote (which I don't think would happen) , then surely the people have decided their future in a democratic way? That would have to be respected no?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,741 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I think most reasonable people will accept that you can estimate what might happen but you cannot be certain or guarantee.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    I'd imagine Unionists will want guarantees on the visibility of their own flags and symbols in a UI if anything. I know that, in an alternate universe where Ireland was going back into the UK, I'd not be too bothered about what flag represented it in favour of rights to our own favoured flag/symbols and whatnot.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There would be a massive issue in fairness, if the North vote for it and the south vote against, what happens then?



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    I think it should be made very clear to people that a 'no' vote will not mean freezing things as they are. In fact, those who want to retain partition permanently - in spite of a vote for unification of the country in the north - should be made to come up with a plan for it that eschews the current anthem, flag, constitution, Proclamation, symbols, artefacts and accepted history of this state, as they'd no longer be appropriate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,719 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,820 ✭✭✭✭markodaly



    For SF supporters in the South, a United Ireland is down at 4th

    In the North, 10% of SF supporters would vote to STAY in the Union!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,820 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    The recent RedC poll is interesting and actually provides the best summary of it.


    Support for the idea of a United Ireland, but not the reality


    If or when such a poll is called, the people will be confronted with the reality and they won't like it one bit.


    However, when prompted on the realities of a United Ireland may mean for those living here in the Republic, the divorce from reality for most is telling.

    Couldn't agree more.


    To make a United Ireland work, the reality is that there will need to be changes and compromises about symbols and structures, to provide for the views of all citizens in that new entity. However, most voters here are currently loath to lose the symbols that represent the Republic of Ireland.


    Only just over 1 in 4 (27%) would be prepared to lose the current Irish tricolour flag to accommodate a new flag as part of any compromise, with 59% saying they wouldn’t be prepared to accept losing the current flag. At the same time only a third (35%) would be prepared to lose the current national anthem for the sake of compromise in United Ireland negotiations.

    Flags and anthems are the easy bit.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,741 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I'm sure it is entirely possible that FG/FF could come up with a plan the people won't like, that would be par for the course.

    So hopefully those who vote for SF will get their NO. 1 priority - change. All else should follow once that is achieved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,820 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Who is mentioning FG/FF?

    I asked you before for the short, medium and long-term benefits of a United Ireland, and like the IRA you ran away..



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  • Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭Luttrell1975


    You are kidding me? You don't know how this is caused?

    The border created a recession when it was put up, creating constant misery in Donegal which used to trade easily to Derry. Leitrim and Cavan were a hinterand with Fermanagh, the effect less bad but still not good. This was recognised by the EU, in the formation of regions and the higher ERDF funding for the border. The Peace fund also recognized this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,741 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I am mentioning FF/FG Mark.

    I discussed the benefits many times before. I am not here to be your punch bag.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,235 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    That's a cop-out. You make a statement and you run away from it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,235 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    What evidence do you have that a United Ireland would be great for the country?

    I have read all the reports and I haven't any evidence that suggests that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,741 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    No blanch. I don't, like some, pretend to be an expert.

    I presume an answer will be found to present to people via a plan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,235 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    We are having separate votes on the concept of a united Ireland, nothing to stop those votes having all of the details on flags and anthems, taxation and social welfare, democratic structures and public service etc.

    Waiting until afterwards was the mistake of Brexit. I would guess that is the aim of the exclusionary nationalists. People are the same everywhere, so I would guess that the exclusionary nationalist playbook will be to mirror the Brexit tactic saying that all questions such as flag, anthems, taxation, social welfare etc. should be left until later. It is a very dangerous approach.

    However, the most sinister thing we could do would be to suggest that concessions to unionism are appeasement. That is possibly the most exclusionary way to create a new Ireland, alienating people from the very start. Let's be frank, the primary national language will have to be English, not Irish, for example, and other elements of traditional Irish culture will have to be relegated from their prominent position in the interests of inclusion. Whether those are things that the South could or even should accept will have to be part of the debate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,235 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    What a load of nonsense.

    You can't change history, the Proclamation isn't a part of the state. Symbols and artefacts don't change unless people decide to change them.

    It would be a very reasonable and mature position if the South rejected a divisive 50% plus 1 outcome in the North and effectively told the North to sort out their own problems first. What would nationalists do? Start a terrorist campaign against the South?

    There is a deep fear underlying your post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    A UI would be more solid. The GFA is a welcome stop gap. The unionists try chip away at it. Its open to being amended down the road.

    Offaly doesn't add to my quality of life, but I wish them well.

    The benefits are no longer ignoring Irish people because they were unfortunate enough to be on the wrong side of a partition they didn't ask for.

    We can only guess at benefits. If you recall the sense of good will and fellowship on the vote for equal rights for same sex couples, multiply that by 100.

    I believe it will invigorate the country socially and eventually, economically.

    I would like the country to be able to move on and I can only see that with a UI.

    If your goal is to just get a list to attack, fair enough.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,418 ✭✭✭BluePlanet


    blanch, it literally wasn't possible for Brexiteers to detail the future relationship with the EU ahead of the Brexit referendum. The future relationship would have to be negotiated with the EU, and they of course have the right to say No thanks.

    So Brexit would always be conceptual until defined later.

    Same in large part to a UI referendum. We can't know ahead of time what relationship the British will want with the people of the 6 counties. They might decide that they are no longer automatically British and yank their entitlement to British passports from them. Though i doubt it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    You are talking about giving one view a handicap to make things easier for another.

    It would make no sense. I can see why unionists are use to rigging such things to suit themselves but those days are gone.

    How do you feel about a UI only needing 35% and the unionists being good sports about it for all the skullduggery and oppression?



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