TFI Fare Revisions from 28th November 2022 Including New 90 Minute Fare.

Both fares would apply I imagine - the short fare is only valid up to 3km. It’s a bit more than that from Adamstown to Liffey Valley.

Am I correct in saying that the fare changes from today should mean that most people can use the right-side validator on buses now? I used to have to go to the driver for the €2.25 fare most of the time which is a lot slower. Is €2.30 the new max fare? In this is the case it should significantly improve dwell times.

Correct, although there is nowhere that you can actually learn this. Another great explainer from the NTA.

Well the new fare is now EUR 2.30. It is planned to increase in March to EUR 2.50 but I suspect that may incur a lot of political pushback. We will have to wait and see.

I would call to Leap card asking for a refund due to an incorrect charge. Did you travel within Dublin or somewhere outskirts?

If the journey by rail started or ended north of Rush and Lusk, south of Bray or west of Hazelhatch/Maynooth the 90 minute fare doesn't apply as its not 90 minutes its a imaginary zone.

The Irish Rail validator will always deduct the max fare which is 4.90 (less 1 euro for the all system 90 minute transfer) and credit back at the other end. This actually is tricky to implement so I wouldn't bet on Irish Rail having this tested fully

AFAIK if you pay the 4.90 fare, subsequent transfers should be free (not just a €1 discount). If you're going in the other direction you should get a credit back to bring the combined fare down to 4.90 but I'm not sure how that get's implemented.

Get on to leap for a refund so, that shouldn't happen.

My leap train ticket is the same price today, nothing changed, wasn't expecting it to either, 2.30 each way. But next year the same trip will be 2.50 each way, €8 increase per month, boo eamon ryan, its always increasing prices with the greens.

I wonder if someone would know this.... if a person is making a short 1.60 journey and returning on the same short journey within 90 minutes, seems to me that it is better for them to tap at the validator for 2.30 for journey 1 and the second journey is free instead of 2 x 1.60, is this correct or am I missing something?

Based on these changes, I really need to figure out if my Taxsaver is worth it. Got a rail/Luas one currently.

Old daily fares would have been a 3.60 rail fare, a 54c Leap90 Luas fare, and another 3.60 rail fare, so 7.74. New would be 4.60; raising to 5 from May

I would drive maybe five days a month on average in normal times, so taking that away plus leave and public holidays; and adding a bit back in for weekend days I use the ticket; I would have had maybe 1550 in spend. Annual ticket doesn't make sense without taxsaver in that case (its 1800); but with taxsaver it does.

On the new pricing, its about 1150 from May, so with taxsaver I'm saying very little. Plus I would get some of my bus trips included by the 90 minute window whereas currently I pay epurse for them; so that difference is gone.

I can't imagine this is rare. For anyone doing any form of hybrid work, living within the 90 minute zone, we already knew Taxsaver was a bust and there were proposals to do something about it.

I'd suggest that the very first thing they need to do is reduce all the various multimode fares to the level of a single operator fare - preferably Luas's 1300 not the CIE 1450 - and make everyones Taxsaver multimode.

1300 is still a poor notional price for that, as assuming 230 workdays and two 2.50 fares is 1150; but its accepted that the annual fares are artificially high due to nobody buying them without Taxsaver!

(yes, this is going to need more subsidy to be given to cover the change in income - but if people drop Taxsaver to pay the cash fares, that subsidy is still going to be needed anyway)

The annual tickets are problematic now that this new fare structure has been introduced because it doesn't make sense to have this mode-agnostic standard fare while having mode-specific monthly or annual tickets - it's just so inconsistent.

It did indeed, must have been something not updated fully yesterday

Yes, I know an example elsewhere where a return journey (identified by the moving direction back to the starting point direction) within the ticket validation time is being charged as a separate journey with an exception for orbital routes, as their end point is the same as the starting point. I was actually myself who got involved in the new fare system in my home country many years ago and made lots of trips trying to break the system and find the mistake. Me and other volunteers found lots of interesting cases which were quickly fixed before launching a new ticket fare. It looks that this was not testing in a real like environment in Dublin, sadly.

The old T90 allowed returns. Leap90 gave the discount on the return on buses only I think?

Thanks for all your obs re the return journey issue.

I also wonder does the driver validator/ticket machine give you a €0 ticket on the return journey (or any other short trip journey) since validating at RHS gives an automatic €2.30 fare?

That is why I noted that instead of using the driver machine for short hop, it seems better and cheaper to auto validate if making subsequent short or longer hop journeys.

I'm sure it will all become clearer in time.

Fairly sure I got overcharged the other day on a Leap fare that should have been the now "short zone" but wasn't.

But I can't find any way of checking what the actual correct fare between two stops is? The DB mobile website is a joke, and the desktop site keeps referring me to TFI for fare information and vice versa.

Is there anywhere that actually gives the correct fare information for a given journey?

The fares determination linked to in the OP states that "the new fares structure for Dublin ensures that distances travelled on the new short fare are approximately 3kms, which is slightly longer than the average distance possible on the existing 1-3 stage based fare on bus services. This also means that some customers who previously would have paid €2.25 on the 4-13 stage fare will now pay €1.60 for the same journey."

That would seem to indicate that the new short fare zone is not always the same as the previous 1-3 stage fare.

Happened again on Saturday night when the drive's machine wasn't working and they told me to use the right hand validator as the fare was the same. Fairly sure it wasn't. (And now I can't check it since the Leap card website has helpfully decided I don't have an account registered.)

Having been away from taxsaver this year due to the extension, I have been topping up 40 euro a fortnight and that's covered my trips for the 2 weeks.

Ive applied for the annual bus/rail/luas for 78 a fortnight for next year, and I have seen my first paycheck online for 2022. I am 12 euro worst off for the fortnight . I don't know whether it's due to changes to tax from the budget or not.

I'm not sure whether this 90 minute fare may have much impact for many 9-6 workers as they will still have to pay it twice in the workday , their shift wouldn't be enough for the 90 minutes.

But for me I'm glad I've put in for the taxsaver next year. 6 euro per week coupled with not having to topup will save me a couple of hundred.

So is it true that there is no "fare calculator" on DB at the moment? How does a passenger work out if they qualify for the short zone fare (3k) or not does anyone know? Just guess or measure on google maps or what lol! I'm referring to the latest roll out of Bus Connects and the new fare structure.

Happy Christmas, and as a bit of a lurker on this board I am grateful for the information given freely to those like myself who are often very confused!

Has anybody established if using a free transfer onto another mode of transport within 90 minutes has any impact on price capping on a Leap Card for the day or week? I would normally buy a taxsaver annual ticket in January, but haven't this year as (like I'm sure a lot of people) I had no idea when I'd be back in the office or how gradual the return would be.

For example - the majority of my commute home can be covered by Luas for the €2.30 fare, but in bad weather I could transfer at no additional cost within the 90 minutes to Dublin Bus, and that would spare me a 15/20 minute walk in the rain from the Luas stop to home.

My question arising from that - even though the transfer to Dublin Bus from Luas is within the 90 minutes, and covered by the €2.30 and therefore effectively free - have I just forced the price cap up on my Leap Card for the week?

The Luas price cap for the week is €27.50, whereas the multi-mode price cap is €40.

There's nothing apparent from the TFI Leap Card website that answers my question.

Thank you.

The problem with the €1.60 fare and the fact that the NTA have implemented the longer 3km journey for this fare category on the new routes is that people who previously would've paid the higher fare but who now qualify for the lower fare under the extended 3km range are in the habit of using the right-hand validator without driver interaction.

They should have implemented the 3km €1.60 fare throughout the entire network instead of this piecemeal approach coupled with new route launches. How the hell are they meant to inform passengers if they can't market the new fare structure and range because they're applying double standards across the network?