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National Broadband Ireland : implementation and progress

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    #4502
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,951 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323880#Comment_118323880

    You working for EIR.?

    Theyve no interest in providing a national plan. Theyve only interest in ripping out the profitable parts of provision and finger up to the rest.

    There's a revision of recent history going on here and it's utterly nonsense. How people pretend the while debacle with EIR never happened when it was only 3 years ago is hilarious.



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    #4503
    heavydawson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭heavydawson


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323880#Comment_118323880

    Present investigation is already finished:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/no-change-in-control-of-multi-billion-euro-broadband-contractor-government-told-1.4754518

    No issues raised. The thing that might collapse NBI is its potential inability to raise capital:

    https://thecurrency.news/articles/68858/key-nbi-backer-considers-future-options-after-calling-in-global-finance-house/



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    #4504
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,568 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323909#Comment_118323909

    No I do not work for Eir. However as a taxpayer this whole thing is s fiasco, fir someone looking for BB it's a fiasco. It all came down to that the dept taught they could bully a private company into a corner and now we have this mess

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #4505
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,803 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    The decision to duplicate the area that eir already covers rather than using EIR as a backhaul is slowing the process and adding cost.

    As I've pointed out before, that was never an option. Eircom don't offer a backhaul product over their rural FTTH network. What they do offer as a regulated access product is pole and duct rental, which is what NBI is using.



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    #4506
    EarWig
    Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭EarWig


    It isn't a mess. Delays were inevitable and covid made it much worse. No news there.

    EIR must have got wind of the refinancing hence the well informed journalism. I admire their unwillingness to take the NBP lying down. Well run company if you ask me.

    But the plan is unstoppable at this point IMO. It has never been so badly needed, it's baked into the plan for government, and is anyway unreversible politically. The Department will find a way to make it work, regardless.

    Pity the government takes EIR's behaviour lying down.



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    #4507
    Adriatic
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭Adriatic


    I've been quietly following this thread daily since the end of January. The odd time people pop in for a few days with these negative unfounded comments about the project being stopped or tendered to a different provider because their tax money is involved. The regulars know exactly who these people are.

    I do enjoy the informed comments from the reliable commentators on here, and I took forward to having fibre broadband, whether it takes one year or ten. I'm in County Cavan and sandwiched between three DAs, all in different phases, one connected, one surveying and one yet to come. From the amount of times and work I've seen NBI or their contractors vans, this is an unstoppable project. They have more to lose than gain by quitting now.



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    #4508
    niallniall
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭niallniall


    Hi, I also check in to the thread every now and then and have a feeling from the comments that the project has stalled. Too be honest I prefer to hear people's comments about their experience getting connected with a better service rather then the fact that EIR or the project is struggling. My area is in Cobh and I've also seen NBI or their contractors vans on regular basis, but what their up to is still a mystery. Even the workers themselves never seem to be over confident about the progress they are making and are alsways slow to say when and where you can expect the service to be upgraded.🤐



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    #4509
    joe123
    Registered Users Posts: 6,521 ✭✭✭joe123


    Ive been around here for a long time and while it is great to hear of the success stories, seeing people who have been in the thread for ages finally get their install dates and show us speed tests (giving hope to the rest of us), I really dont get the blinkers on approach by others. As frustrating and annoying as it is, its right to call out projects faults rather than ignore it.

    There has been plenty wrong with the NBI rollout so far. To blame the massive delays on Covid alone has already been called out as not the full truth. Lets not even mention NBI's constant over promising and under delivering and they were clearly unprepared for a lot of work involved (covid aside)

    Its been a bit of a **** show at times like it or not. Talk of acceleration? Rubbish. Over promising targets constantly, ground work not fully planned and lets not even discuss their NBI promotional campaign and customer support.

    Id be surprised if the project gets derailed/suspended but I definitely have fear over the funding side of things and just how far they are behind on the rollout at this stage. "Now surveying in" has completely ground to a halt and there has been zero indication theyl be even able to meet their reduced targets at this stage.

    On the most recent figures, what were they meant to have hit by the end of this year? Wasnt it something like 60k houses.



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    #4510
    Steve F
    Registered Users Posts: 1,852 ✭✭✭Steve F


    I was installed on Tuesday 7th at the height of storm Barra which wasn't too bad in Louth

    I thought I would leave it a week or so to see what my average speeds are

    Package Digiweb 1GB

    650mb Down

    150mb Up

    Also purchased a Fritzbox Repeater 3000 from Digiweb and it spreads the signal through the whole house

    There are areas in the house where on Smartphones and Laptops the download drops to 300mb and upload to 100mb but all in all very happy

    We go Smart TV shopping after Christmas 😊



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    #4511
    Pique
    Registered Users Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭Pique


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325070#Comment_118325070

    I've seen friends on 1GB Digiweb with SIRO get the same sort of speeds. So that's as much of a like-for-like as is possible I suppose and NBI compares favourably.

    I'll be getting connected in Jan sometime once I figure out a way to run a duct.



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    #4512
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,568 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325056#Comment_118325056

    I not sure if 60 was the original figure because of COVID. But at this stage there are less than 50% of that figure. However a lot of there present houses passed is in area where they should be getting numbers. Wait until they start to really rural areas where you are 15-20 miles from a decent sized town.

    I commented on NBI back at the tendering stage. Like a few other we were virtually ran off the threads because we pointed out the flaws in the process. If NBI cannot get numbers if houses passed in areas of decent population density it will absolutely struggle when it hits real rural Ireland.

    Is there product decent if you get it. Yes it is but getting it will be the problem. As I pointed out 2-3 years back I cannot see how a company that had no Telco experience could hit targets that No Telco has hit in Ireland.

    Recently I change BB provider from Eir to Vodaphone as my eir co tract ran its course. The installer has worked on the SIRO project. The best they hit he said (and this was mainly an urban project) was slightly over 3k houses passed/ week. I think Eir did not manage much better than that when they did there 300k odd houses in the commercial areas they choose.

    I say the government is hoping that Eir will siphon off some of the areas commercially as is NBI because it the only way this project will be completed before 2030. If they weren't they would be down on EIR over entering the intervention area. It also a way to fund NBI without them hitting targets.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #4513
    Gary kk
    Registered Users Posts: 675 ✭✭✭Gary kk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325556#Comment_118325556

    Are you suggesting to stop fiber roll out



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    #4514
    FunkyFresh
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭FunkyFresh


    KN cancelled our rescheduled install today, allegedly having "no valid contact number", despite calling us right up to our original install date and even sending an engineer to do a survey on the 7th.

    Happy to see others getting connected, but I have to say KN are possibly the worst company I've ever had the displeasure of dealing with.

    Useless shower.



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    #4515
    heavydawson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭heavydawson


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325556#Comment_118325556

    It went from 115k Estimated -> (Covid) -> 60k Estimated -> 35k Actual

    The 3k houses passed/week is a red herring. Entirely dependent on how many vans they have working at any given time across the country. It's not a universal limit :-)

    The process will continue until NBI runs out of capital on their side of the funding (if that happens). They will (rightly) have to explain how they hit less than 60% of their revised target and why, and people will rightly ask how can any of their projections be trusted if they can't give accurate numbers for < 12 months time.

    The government will have to penalise them for the contract to have even a shred of credibility come February.

    As an aside, no-one should worry about the project being stalled as of today. People are being connected on a daily basis, and I see the vans here in the Tipperary DA zooming around the place (and you can catch them every morning for their breakfast parked outside the Tipperary Town Plaza :-) )

    So don't fret if you don't see the vans in a DA that's under build. They have a massive area to cover in each DA.



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    #4516
    joe123
    Registered Users Posts: 6,521 ✭✭✭joe123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118326135#Comment_118326135

    Not so much the active DA's or ones even planned for next year or 23. I definitely have a worry for everything in 2025/26 though. Maybe not outright cancellation but further delays/missing targets/suspensions while "reviews" take place which could add years to the rollout.

    Hopefully not as its clear its badly needed at this point.



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    #4517
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,568 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118325842#Comment_118325842

    No we are where we are. But it going to take some imaginitive and creative work to get this this contract back on track. FB is critical to rural Ireland handing the contract to a company with neither experience in Ireland or in telecommunications was a disaster. It interesting I am involved in a group water scheme. 3-4 yeard back we were LA grant funded for to lay a new main water pipe. The project was estimated at 200K, LA rules on our tender was that any company that was allowed to tender needed to have completed 2 million in water projects in the last 3 years. If that rule was not in place we could have cut the cost of the project by 20-40%. Yet here we have an unproven company given a 2.5 billion euro project with no experience


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118326135#Comment_118326135

    I am not sure why you think that 3k houses is a red herring. It an average. It tell you the scale of this project. If you average for the last 18-20 months NBI have averaged about 400 per week. At present it is not beyond 500/ week. There are over 500K still to do, at this rate it will atke 20 years to complete the contract. They will scale up.However is it optimistic to think that they will average 1K/week for the next 12 months. My biggest fear is that the original backershave very little skin in the game any longer.

    Just on an aside regarding house fits. One issue that the Vodaphone fit tech said to me was that the level of detail demanded by NBI/department on installations is causing problems. The paperwork for the tech is taking longer than the fit.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #4518
    dollylama
    Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭dollylama


    I heard through the grapevine that Kellys walked away from the build contract as the rates were farcical to the point they'd lose money. Considering their large presence in the UK, Kellys would be well familiar with low rates in a competitive market so either the costs in Ireland are substantially higher or the money on offer to contractors for NBI is too low



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    #4519
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,568 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118327788#Comment_118327788

    Labour costs in the UK are generally lower as well as vans and materials etc.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #4520
    SkepticQuark
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭SkepticQuark


    So some premises in the Tipperary DA are now on pre-order, however, it seems to be kinda inconsistent should we say.

    The town itself has not got a pre-order on the ones I checked, however, some houses on the R662 do but there are instances of houses on that road separated merely by a fence being either build in progress or pre-order. Really doesn't make any sense to me?



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    #4521
    NBAiii
    Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭NBAiii


    Some more figures from the Dáil today. As of the 3rd December there were 27000 premises ready for service with 3900 connections completed over 11 counties as of the 6th December and 25% take up in one area within a few months of going live.

    Despite the unprecedented challenges presented by the Covid-19 pandemic, NBI has made steady progress on delivery of the new high speed fibre broadband network under the National Broadband Plan. The first fibre to the home connections are successfully connected with over 27,000 premises passed and available for immediate connection. In total, almost 35,000 premises can order or pre-order a connection on the network as of 3 December. This includes residential and commercial premises. NBI has confirmed that over 3,900 premises have been connected as of 6 December and this is increasing on a daily basis. Connections have been made in 11 counties including Carlow, Cavan, Clare, Cork, Galway, Kerry, Limerick, Louth, Monaghan, Roscommon and Tipperary. To date, the level of connections are in line with projections and some areas are exceeding targets, for example, one area has seen almost a 25% take up after only a few months of going live.

    In line with a remedial plan to address Covid-19 related delays which was agreed with the Department earlier this year, NBI was to have almost 60,000 premises passed and available for immediate connection by the end of January 2022 (the end of Contract Year 2). As would be expected with a large scale infrastructure build of this nature, challenges have been encountered as a result of Covid-19 and also planning and build related issues. NBI is actively working with its network and build partners to address these issues as they arise and has recently confirmed to my Department that the number of premises passed by the end of December will be in the order of 35,000, while between 50,000 and 60,000 premises will be able to order or pre-order a service by the end of the year. For more than another 120,000 premises, I am advised build work is underway demonstrating the project is reaching scale.

    I met with the Board of NBI on 19 November last to restate the priority the Government attaches to this project and the need for urgent resolution of build related issues. I met with the Chair and CEO of both NBI and eir yesterday to reinforce that message.

    The focus for 2022 is to continue to build momentum in the build, catch up on the delays experienced and plan for acceleration. Final targets for 2022 are expected to be agreed early in the new year.

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2021-12-14/51/speech/398/




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    #4522
    heavydawson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭heavydawson


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118327948#Comment_118327948

    Ah good to hear! How far out the R662 is that? My parents in law are quite close to town and they're still in build



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    #4523
    SkepticQuark
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭SkepticQuark


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328830#Comment_118328830
    image.png

    This was as close as I could find a pre-order premises to the town. Though bear in mind there's at least one house and probably more on the left side of this road after that point that seem to not be pre-order which is why I find it kind of weird and arbitrary.



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    #4524
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,951 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118327788#Comment_118327788

    Mad that they... Signed up to it. That's not how tendors worked. If you examined word on the grapevine more. I'd say Kelly's signed up. Then found out that they couldn't get the bodies to fill it. Needed to pay more and still the bodies are difficult. Pandemic and the flight of people back to their home countries coupled with brexit none of that gives a buoyant pool of folks to pick from.


    But ye.. It was the NBP rates....



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    #4525
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,568 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328901#Comment_118328901

    This Is the problem when you have companies unfamiliar with the country. Even simple things like travel time catch you. If you operate in a lot of the UK you can be 60-80 miles down the road in an hour. Managing mobility of staff is a huge issue in Ireland.

    After the last recession some companies were expecting staff to pick up 2-3 hours travelling tine a day. EU law and the economy lifting has changed that. Accommodation allowances for those traveling over am hour to work has reared it head again.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #4526
    Dceng2
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭Dceng2


    I see my own premises in Killarney DA has been pushed out to spring (February - April 2022). Sometimes, all you can do is laugh 🤣



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    #4527
    heavydawson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭heavydawson


    Yup my premises just went from DEC-FEB, to DEC-MAR. Not a huge slip, but still a moving target



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    #4528
    heavydawson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭heavydawson


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328887#Comment_118328887

    Looks like the R664 (Glen of Aherlow road from Town) also has pre-orders. Good stuff.

    Wouldn't surprise if they picked that area to go live first so they've got some spectacular backdrops for the promotional photos :-D Lets see if the galtees or the glen appears in any of the "First premises in Tipperary" connected material



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    #4529
    SkepticQuark
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭SkepticQuark


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118329736#Comment_118329736

    When I was looking around more deeply Donohill area is on ready to connect already? Seemingly all around the quarry there are ready to connect houses but as soon as you get to Monard that stops unsurprisingly lmao, always the last in the county to get anything it feels like.

    R497 and R661 also have pre-order status.



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    #4530
    xxyyzz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭xxyyzz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328991#Comment_118328991

    Tralee is still at Nov '21 - Jan '22 but I can't see it happening



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    #4531
    Findlk
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭Findlk


    Had an appointment for install on 6th December. Was told we needed a pole in the back garden. Was then called yesterday to say it would happen this Friday 17th. Then today get a call to say they have to cancel, as they need a civil works team to do the job, and they're not available until the 23rd. Not a bit happy, awaiting a call from a KN supervisor 🤬



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