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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭Deiselurker


    Yeah RTE Six one news had pieces on refugees from Afghanistan a few times this week with someone from an Irish NGO wanting flexibility shown on validating ID and family reunification for the refugees as said it was difficult for them to get official documents due to the situation there!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    We might as well change the constitution in the name of accuracy: "The constitution asserts the "inalienable, indefeasible, and sovereign right" of the Irish people NGO to self-determination (Article 1). The state is declared to be "sovereign, independent, [and] democratic" (Article 5)"

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,158 ✭✭✭Kaybaykwah


    I suspect they’re also tempted to sample the samosas and pakoras.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    they know that France will export them back in a heartbeat, that's why.



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  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    France doesnt need to export.. they will head to UK..its easier for all concerned(except the English). also it takes at least 6 months to even register your case for international protection in France. Italy loved giving amnesty to illegals...they would take their new papers and travel freely to the northern welfare states



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    You must have a great memory .Yes internet ,more TV channels more low paid jobs ,higher rents rising housing costs ,more scams ,fgm ,more welfare fraud ,fake asylum seekers ,higher crime and rapes ,boom and bust cycles .



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    IMHO there's a strong case to be made that technology has made everyone's memory (my own included) far less capable. I'm constantly amazed at the detail of the memories that my parents have going back to the 40s/50s... whereas I have friends who struggle to remember much of anything except for what's directly related to their work.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    A common trait as you get older you tend to remember the distant past and forget recent events .



  • Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭Luttrell1975


    From the start of time this has always been the rule for a healthy society. Make it homogenous and you will make it dangerous, violent and unhealthy. Ireland, child abuse, alcoholism, church impunity, lack of accountability. Make the society more diverse and there are less sheep to follow the lines we used to follow, like the banks are in good shape or the priests are holy and would never touch a child.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭Luttrell1975




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Homogeneous societies have been some the safest societies in human history. This hasn't been a rule from that start, or even a belief by some. It's a very modern view that diversity improves things, so I'm going to have to call bullshit on this being some piece of wisdom that the people of the past all believed in. I honestly think you've just made that up on the spot.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    That has got to be some of the biggest load of bullshyte I have seen in a while.

    Canada, the Freaking US had church child abuse FFS.

    The country where you had Irish, Polish, Italian, Hispanic members of the catholic church not just some ould ones from a rural Irish parish.

    And as for the banks??

    Are you totally pulling the p* now.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's only within the last 100 years that people have started to move far from their homelands, except in times of extreme danger. The vast majority of people in a region would remain in that area, and view anyone from the outside as being foreign. The concept and belief in nationality is also relatively new, and beyond ethnic differences, cultural differences were seen as being huge in determining how foreign someone was. The point being with a few exceptions, very few, homogeneous societies were extremely popular and commonplace. To the extent that "from the start of time" assimilation of foreign (that could be foreign as 20 miles away) was the norm.. the expectation was that others would conform to the local culture or F off (or be killed off in many situations).

    The rest of your claims are just as badly thought out. You've skipped over history and basic logic. Still, do come back and defend your claims.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    What ?? The Irish are naturally immoral degenerates and need other cultures to improve us ?

    I'm not going to send what I originally typed but Luttrell.. c'mon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,913 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Right, so you say we shouldn't allow in that cohort that blindly follows fundamentalist religious percepts? Make society more diverse as in bring in more people that don't consider women equal, that value their religion more than the human rights and science and secular concepts? what good would it do?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Standard operational self hate towards "old Ireland". Quite the fashion. It's a trait we seem to have when talking about the past and those who ruled over us. The English were to blame for all our ills and the Church would come to save us. Until we got shot of them and in turn they became the blame for all our ills. Now for some it's diversity that will save us from ourselves. Until in time, it won't and we'll blame that too.

    You'll also note this "cultural improvement" in play in the wider multucultural context, but only ever in one direction and of a particular focus with it. In the multuculturalist narrative and politic it's only ever White, Western, nominally "christian" cultures and peoples that seem to be in such dire need of diversity to fix their long list of apparent and usually imagined ills. And this diversity has to be as "exotic" as possible. 200,000 pale Swedes living here in Ireland wouldn't cut the diversity mustard for the multuculturalist mindset. Indeed here in Ireland the vast majority of the recent history migrant demographic are White Europeans in background, but you'd be forgiven for not realising that as the multuculturalists, the vested interest NGO's and their right wing racist opponents are all obsessed by skin colour. And none among the multucultural flag wavers would ever come close to promoting the idea that what a Black, African, non christian culture and people really need to fix all their apparent societal ills is an influx of thousands of White Westerners.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭Luttrell1975


    So I made up the phrase E Pluribus Unum? Ok, if you say so....



  • Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭Luttrell1975


    I don't think I said that. I just think we were starved of diversity, and for that reason have paid a high price.



  • Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭Luttrell1975


    What a weird example, but yeah... two people each following a different blind set of beliefs is healthier than 2 following the same set of blind beliefs.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,913 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Wow.

    No, it's not healthier to have a second person blindly following religious beliefs being allowed to come in as some weird act of balancing another person blindly following religious beliefs. Healthier will be to reject persons blindly following religious beliefs, we don't need more of them and they are of no benefit to us.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    How could it be read any other way !? Here is your description of homogenous Ireland:

    Make it homogenous and you will make it dangerous, violent and unhealthy. Ireland, child abuse, alcoholism, church impunity, lack of accountability.

    And when Ireland is less homogeneous aka less percentage of the population are Irish from an Irish cultural background :

    Make the society more diverse and there are less sheep to follow the lines we used to follow, like the banks are in good shape or the priests are holy and would never touch a child.

    The insinuation that the Irish are inclined to child abuse and complicit in paedophilia if not for the presence of other cultures is particularly disgusting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭Luttrell1975


    I don't entirely disagree, but diversity helps.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    A phrase* once associated with the United States of America applied by almost exclusively White Anglo Christian men talking about the uniting of those early states as a political and cultural union under their god where slavery of the Black African and the squeezing out of the natives was a thing. Not exactly a great quote to wheel out in defence of diversity of the kind you seek to promote. Though I can see how the Latin part might give it weight for some. Like when TV shows have some eejit spouting bad Latin to denote "magick" and the like. It makes it sound "special".




    *tbh while I did Latin and got the gist the context is only in the back of my mind because I was recently reading about the early US and the notions of manifest destiny and expansion and it came up.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Easier to download Duolingo in France? A lot of French/Spanish/Germans speak English also.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    How diverse is Nigeria? Benin? Etc. Shouldn't you and the likes of you head over there and make them multicultural? Save them from homogeneity. Or are you just another in a long line of white men, taking from Africans/Asians//Arabians for your own benefit (multiculturalism) and not letting Africa/Arabia have any multiculturalism in return?? You are no better than the original colonizers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Worked in Rotherham, Newcastle, Luton etc, eh I mean, oops.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,913 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Go away with this kind of racist nonsense, it didn't work out well because they tried it with the wrong kind of di... oops again.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    It's more likely to be that old orientalism and exoticism coming to the fore. Exotic religious beliefs are somehow better than our mundane ones. Like those who in another generation would be daily communicants, but find that old hat now and seek a similar comfort in pocket Buddhism, crystals and burning sage. The European psyche long had that going on. Even as far back as ancient Rome where polytheism was a thing so encouraged it diety fashions came and went and the more exotic the better.

    Of course it also assumes that diversity of thought when introduced causes a more widespread positive effect on the society, rather than the different diversities choosing to look more inward, or heaven forbid negative effects. The latter inward looking trend is far more in evidence in multicultural European societies, certainly where it comes to religious beliefs. I don't like to bring in Islam as it too often becomes a whipping boy for all sides, but has a woman from a Muslim background more, less, or the same likelihood of wearing hijab in multicultural Europe as they might back home and how many non Muslim women take it up as an example of this diversity cross fertilisation in action?

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    The singular problem with your argument is that Ireland was moving hard away from "good oul Catholic Ireland" in the 1980's when the country was whiter than Dracula's book of the month club. The shift was pretty quick too. Barely had Pope John Paul George and Ringo's feet left the tarmac after his Ireland gigs the shift had started. By the mid 80's even when the last gasp of the old was represented by oulwans polishing rosary beads staring at moving statues, we could now buy rubber johnnies in the shops 😮, by the early 90's we had being Gay removed as an offence and divorce came along its wake. All before "multicultural Ireland". And since then do you really think folks from non EU more religious backgrounds would be at the vanguard of voting yes to abortion and same sex marriage? Do you really believe that if Ireland had remained homogenous that we wouldn't have voted that way in those referenda?

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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