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Formula 1 Round 22 Abu Dhabi GP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,611 ✭✭✭quokula


    The timeline you put forward isn’t fully accurate - by the time the field passed the incident on lap 56 the Marshalls were finished and off the track. They weren’t at the end of the lap yet so could easily have let the backmarkers go by at that point when it was still lap 56 and then restarted on lap 57 but they didn’t.

    Latifi’s car was actually cleared on lap 55 and lapped cars don’t run at full racing speed, they run to a delta that is effectively the same as the VSC, and it is absolutely standard for cars to run at these speeds without needing to be behind a safety car when there’s just some carbon fibre being cleared - see Saudi Arabia for example. This is why drivers like Alonso and Vettel were on the radio asking why lapped cars weren’t being allowed past like they normally do.

    The only failure of procedure was the delay in letting lapped cars through. As soon as Latifi crashed everyone expected and assumed that lapped cars would go through and then the race would restart, because that’s all completely normal, barring something like a damaged barrier dramatically slowing the incident recovery. It would be wrong to go against precedent and not let lapped cars through, and it would also be wrong to not finish the race under green flag conditions when the incident had been cleared two laps before the end.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Regarding your point about Perez having DRS, you still have to acknowledge that he drove fantastically in this duel with Lewis. The soft tyres on Perez's car were in very poor condition at this stage. Ultimatley he cost Lewis around 8 seconds.

    If the tables were turned and Lewis was on fresher tyres was trying to pass Max on the last lap, who would have finished first? Well if Max had the engine advantage that Lewis had, I believe that Max would have won. Maybe I am wrong, we will never know. However, most people agree that Max is a worthy F1 champion and Lewis behaved in a very sporting manner in the end, fair play to both of them.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "The timeline you put forward isn't fully accurate - by the time the field passed the incident on lap 56 the Marshalls were finished and off the track".

    Incorrect. When the field passed on lap 56 at least 3 marshalls were still on track. They are scrambling over the barriers as the field passes, when we leave the scene they are over the barriers but inside the fence.

    From this angle the safety car is entering turn 15 on lap 56. It is fully accurate to say the track became clear sometime on lap 56 or 57.




  • Registered Users Posts: 55,600 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Was Max’s overtake manoeuvre on final lap a DRS move?



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    I have said multiple times in this thread that Perez was outstanding in that duel, including at the time.

    I use the DRS remark when people try to dismiss Hamilton’s abilities ‘because Perez was able to do it’.

    DRS gave Perez a weapon that Hamilton didn’t have on the last lap, and it was because of that that Perez was able to get past Hamilton on the back straight, but it doesn’t take away from how well Perez did.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,242 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980




  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    No, there was no DRS on the last lap but even if there was, DRS wouldn’t have been active where Verstappen made the move.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭Gamb!t




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭McFly85


    Good old change.org. Has it ever actually managed to change anything??

    In other news I see the latest thing being complained about is Checo having the audacity to hold up Hamilton in the first place. Apparently because he had the slower car he was unsportsmanlike.


    The sooner people move on and start looking forward to 2022 the better it will be for everyone!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,611 ✭✭✭quokula


    I said by the time the field passed the Marshalls were off track - you then countered this with an image before the field had fully passed - you know full well that within 3 seconds of the frame you took all those marshalls were behind the barrier and well outside of the firing line - if lapped cars were allowed to go after they passed this spot the marshalls would certainly have comfortably been long gone by the time they got around a lap later.

    And, as I mentioned, when the actual blockage is cleared and there's nothing on the racing line, it is perfectly normal for cars to go at VSC speeds, as happens on many occasions. This is why people like Vettel and Alonso who know what they're talking about were so confused and incredulous on their radio at normal procedure not being followed.



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  • Posts: 13,688 Malik Rhythmic Backyard


    They love a good petition across the Irish Sea.

    Unfortunately for them, there's nothing the House of Commons can do about the result.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,611 ✭✭✭quokula


    Bourdais holds a long standing grudge against Christian Horner from when he was sacked by Red Bull so there's no surprise there. I wonder since he was so appalled by Perez having the audacity to defend in racing conditions, how he felt about Bottas deliberately slowing down behind the safety car to delay Verstappen and allow Hamilton a free stop in the previous race - something that was, unlike what Perez did, completely against the rules.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55,600 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Must watch again, but did Lewis’s defence on Max on the inside seem a little weak, even non-existent?



  • Registered Users Posts: 55,600 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    If you had to put it down to one thing that allowed Max win, was it Lewis not pitting during VSC?

    his tyres on lap 58 were about 44 laps old



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The marshalls are on track in that image, which is in the closing corners of lap 56. The last we see of them, they have jumped over the barrier but are still in front of the fence. Then the camera cuts and lap 57 begins less than 10s later.

    The earliest possible moment that the track can be considered clear is the beginning of lap 57.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Anjobe


    He probably thought it was better to let Max through there and try to re-overtake on the back straight, rather than go defensive and then be a sitting duck himself on the back straight. Remember Max was 2nd in the race but leading the championship if neither finished, so he had nothing to lose by making the late lunge, but Lewis really had to avoid any contact which could have put him down the order.

    If Lewis had pitted then he would have conceded the lead. Staying out and maintaining track position was the correct decision at the time, it was only the late safety car that changed that.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    It was a bit of a lunge (not a dangerous lunge) whereby Max was the latest on the brakes and had the grip of the soft tyres. I think there was a mix of Hamilton being unable to afford to make contact and also realising he had two straights that would give him a chance.

    It was a great move from Max. I don’t think anyone expected him to make the move there and he defended admirably afterwards.

    It was a last lap worthy of a champion, regardless of the tyre advantage he had.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55,600 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Yes. Agreed. It was pure skill and bravery. Real champion move!



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,386 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,611 ✭✭✭quokula



    So we're in agreement that the marshals were totally off the track and behind the barriers on lap 56. They don't need to be behind the fence for lapped cars to safely unlap themselves and drive to deltas. They don't even need to be behind the barrier, it's totally normal in many incidents that VSCs have been enough for marshals to clear incidents once there isn't something like a car or a large amount of debris on the racing line. There's also the fact that if the lapped cars were let go after that corner, they had a whole couple of minutes before they'd arrive at the corner again, which was plenty of time for the marshals to take the few footsteps required to get behind the fence.

    This is all normal, it's why multiple drivers who have nothing to do with either Mercedes or Red Bull were getting on their team radio questioning why lapped cars aren't being allowed to pass like they normally are. The one and only mistake that was made was delaying that call. If they had been more timely then it would have had zero impact on the outcome but would have taken away this silly talking point that Mercedes are pushing.

    Other than that it was an unremarkable safety car period. A car goes off on lap 53 and blocks the racing line necessitating a safety car, the car itself is cleared on lap 55, the marshals are completely off track on lap 56, the lapped cars unlap themselves as is entirely normal, and they go racing on lap 58 as you'd expect.



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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Hilarious 😄😀😃

    This has zero chance of changing anything, I would be very suprised if Hamilton would support it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,346 ✭✭✭✭blade1


    Just saw Lewis getting knighted or something there on the news.

    Was expecting Max to barge in and blow Lewis out of the way just as the sword came down, resulting in Max getting knighted instead. 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,541 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt



    Ah Bourdais...I hope he doesn't watch the 2016 race, Lewis was doing it for the whole race!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,507 ✭✭✭recyclebin


    I suppose its a slippery slope. First it's Max team mate holding up his rival which is fine, then it's the Alpha Tauri. Not too far off a race fixing then at that point.

    Couple of the bigger teams have way too much sway and power to influence other teams and drivers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,886 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    But he wasn't a back marker, there weren't blue flags. It was a legitimate fight for position...



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,242 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Perez was in P1 at the time and on that basis alone, forgetting team orders and Max, he was more than entitled to fight for the position and keep P2 behind him. Hamilton did the exact same thing in 2016 to slow up Rosberg and back him up into Vettel and the others behind him.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Ah come on it is a bit different to 2016. Hamilton was holding up his rival, Perez wasn’t in the title fight.

    Thats not to say there was anything wrong with what Checo did, mind. Complete non-issue for me and only for the SC it would have been the most exciting part of the race.

    Id love to see more fighting for the team to the extent Checo did, personally. Alonso in Hungary another example.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,507 ✭✭✭recyclebin


    I said what Perez did was fine! I'm just expanding the discussion as I think race results and decisions are being compromised by the power Mercedes and Red Bull have over the driver market.

    Alonso on the other hand just has a vendetta against Hamilton :p



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,562 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    The definitive reason why Masi got it right

    Or else Toto is selling his stake to Storey

    https://twitter.com/rich_energy/status/1470471870151593991?s=20



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,346 ✭✭✭✭blade1




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