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Covid cert and public pool and gym

2456

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,706 ✭✭✭whippet


    Actual public health advise would disagree with you. And that is what government is basing it’s regulations on. The government has to take advice from somewhere and you can be sure it isn’t from those who say they ‘don’t need or want’ a vaccine.

    Nobody has been forced in to taking a vaccine .. just like no one is forced to smoke - but for public health reasons the government have said that neither smokers or unvaccinated should be indoors with everyone else.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Which public health advice?

    - Don't wear masks. Do wear masks.

    - Antigen tests are snake oil. Antigen tests are mandatory.

    - Don't vaccinate children. Do vaccinate children.

    - Two doses. Three doses. Four doses.

    Also, smokers can go anywhere they want including Gyms and restaurants?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,706 ✭✭✭whippet


    I get it - you don't trust the science and don't trust the government .... I personally think the government have made a total balls of this from the start - especially from a communications point of view.

    But this is an evolving situation - there is variants that were not around 12 months ago ... only 5% of the African continent is in any way vaccinated - so what is good advise 12 months ago may not be good advice today.

    But I know it's a futile job trying to change your mind so - I'll agree with you .... you are being discriminated against, get on to a really good lawyer like Tracy O'Mahoney and support from Ben Gilroy with expert advice from Prof Cahill ...then get running to the high court and your kids will never have to work a day in their lives again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,157 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Ah I think I understand why you continue to incorrectly state that the Gym have changed their T&Cs. You believe that the government has no power to restrict non vaccinated people to gyms & pubs. That's a very different argument & not what OP has asked. The gym are implementing government restrictions. You also continue to say that the gym can't restrict a members access & continue to charge them. First off They aren't continuing to charge OP. OP for some very strange reason paid for a year in the middle of a pandemic when gyms were likely to be closed most of the year. So long as the gym extends OPs membership by the length of time that they are denied access on public health grounds then OP isn't losing anything that they paid for.

    It's not helpful to state that T&Cs have been altered just because you don't agree with the public health measures decided by the government. If you knew anything about T&Cs you'd know this isn't true. IF the T&Cs were changed then OP will win hands down in a small claims case BUT so long as OP gets the 12 months they paid for (even if it takes 2 years) then they don't have a case.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If vaccination is a condition of membership, the Terms & Conditions have changed. I don't know how much clearer I can be.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    The only reason why you would invoke those people you mentioned is to try and label me as "anti-vax". At this point, the functional definition of "anti-vax" is the same as "grifter," "conspiracy theorist," "white supremacist," "contrarian," "misogynist," i.e. a person who questions or defies liberal orthodoxy. That's how it can apply to those who advocate vaccines and restrictions. This is such a well know script that it is indeed deserving of the name cliché and I pin that accusation on you, because that's what you're resorting to.

    The Government has the power do almost anything at this point because we are being governed by emergency legislation. We see this in countries around the world like China, Brazil, Russia where Governments legally pass laws to circumvent democratic conventions, that doesn't mean that we should.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭bokale


    Does anyone have a copy of the terms and conditions and we can see if they changed?

    What gym was it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,611 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    It doesn't exist, the thread was started by a burner account to give a platform to the 'But, But, Me Fraydumbs" brigade.

    The reality is the vast vast majority of people in gyms and elsewhere are vaccinated and they don't want some malcontent who has Bitchute'd themselves retarded anywhere near them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,041 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    "Bitchute'd themselves retarded". lol. Im nicking that.

    There was a noticeable drop off in attendees in my gym from last week. Pool is almost empty. Love it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,157 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    It's not a condition of membership!!! OP is a member of the gym. It's not safe for OP to be indoors with other people. For their own safety & to reduce the strain they are putting on our hospitals the aren't allowed indoors in many venues. An organ transplant was canceled only a few weeks ago due to the strain unvaccinated are putting on our system. This doesn't effect the T&Cs of his membership, no matter how many times you say it does.

    Do you really think someone took out a years gym membership in the middle of the pandemic knowing that they would be shut for most of this year & maybe again next year? All gyms are doing monthly memberships at the moment.This thread is a feeble excuse to start a Covid vaccine thread in the hope that it doesn't get merged with the big thread. If genuine then it's not really suitable for this forum. It's a consumer affairs issue.

    You should take a little break there my friend. I'm not trying to make out you are an anti vax nut as you suggest but you may be coming across as one with your comments?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,157 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    A lot of fit gym members see themselves as super fit & not likely to catch covid or suffer much from it.

    I remember a question sent in to Men's Fitness Mag 20 years ago. "MY friend" believes that he has little chance ending up in hospital from taking Ecstasy because he trains 7 days a week. The reply was that he'll make a healthy looking corpse. :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭bokale


    Lot of Joe Rogan being listened to down the gyms too I'd say.

    They'd put anything but a vaccine in them haha



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Vaccination is now a requirement for the OP to access the Gym, to argue that the conditions of membership have not changed as a result of this takes quite the effort of wilful ignorance. Either way, as you may have noticed my objection is with laws that allow open discrimination against those that refuse it & the question of it's effectiveness is an important aspect of this. There is no evidence that I am aware of that cv-19 certs reduce transmission, deaths, cases etc.

    Irish hospitals have been overwhelmed every winter of my adult life. In fact, hospitals were busier in winter of 2018 than they were in last year or this year. In August we were told of the "worst hospital overcrowding since the beginning of the Pandemic" yet in 2018 there were 668 patients waiting on trolleys or in wards! Furthermore, in January of this year (2021) when Ireland was bounced into a Level 5 lockdown for 6 months there was a decrease of 60 - 70% trolley waiters compared to the same period in 2020.


    As for cancelling operations, this is nothing new. From 2018 Latest: All non-urgent operations cancelled as HSE given funding to clear backlog (irishexaminer.com) and even go back to 2009 9,000 operations cancelled - FG (irishtimes.com)

    Are we are now expected to forever protect the HSE rather than it protect us as it’s funded to do?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,041 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Testosterone, Deca, Dianabol, Winstrol, Clenbuterol, Growth Hormone, Insulin, Desmopressin, Chlortalidone, GHB, Ephedrine all bought off a dodgy Hungarian website just to put on a bit of muscle - all good.

    Taking pills and coke (with hidden ingredients like novocain, various amphetamines and levamisole thats been cut in some Moroccan mudhut) at the weekend because theyre calorie free - All good.

    Life saving vaccine developed by scientists in a lab and produced under the strictist of regulations- "Oh you're a sheep, whats in it, its untested, trust the science lol".



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Many assumptions being made there. But you're also correct. People are within their rights to be obese, smoke or take any other kind of risks within the law.

    Just like they're within their rights to refuse a medical treatment they don't need or want.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,157 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Ever heard the expression: Flogging a dead horse?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    In that respect, you're right. Trying to convince people of the contradictions and hypocrisy of the official narrative at this stage is a pointless exercise. I believe that if NPHET suddenly announced it’s been discovered that Covid hovers 4 feet six inches above the ground, the vast majority of Irish people would go around on their hands and knees.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,504 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    You're talking out of your arse if you think that's what going to the gym is about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,834 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    they can refuse it, but that can and should impact their ability to potentially negatively impact the health of others who made the effort to get vaccinated and be team players...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,906 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Isn't that one of the side effects of the listed medications?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,141 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    I don't suppose anyone cares that the OP hasn't posted since starting the thread, which remains their only post on the site.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,157 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    It's been noted alright.

    OP is the only person I've heard of that bought a years gym membership during the pandemic. Gyms all moved to monthly & weekly membership. Ben Dunne scrapped the 12 Month sub altogether. Who would biy 12 months membership when gyms are rolling in & out of lockdown? Someone is trying to push their anti vax agenda imo



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭bokale


    Yep just another anti vax thread



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,666 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    These are the only cases for discrimination in Ireland. Which of these apply to you? Do they also apply to people who are not allowed in the pool for not having a hat?


    • Gender

    • Civil status

    • Family status

    • Sexual orientation

    • Religion

    • Age (does not apply to a person under 16)

    • Disability

    • Race

    • Membership of the Traveller community



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,041 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    No vax no swim.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,142 ✭✭✭rom


    https://thecai.ie/your-rights/your-rights/know-your-rights/


    Under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980


    Goods and service are of merchantable quality. They muse be fit for the purpose. If the unvaxinated person states that this is no longer the case due to the addition of the requirement of a COVID pass then they can request a refund for the remainder of their membership. If they gym still refuses then state you will take them to the small claims court as you will win.


    A relative took this advise from me last year when at his gym they no longer had showers operational and they had to refund the membership. 


    On a side note as not to be anti-business most gyms would be reasonable and allow you to freeze your membership until the COVID cert is removed but if you want to cancel and get a refund for the part remaining you are 100% within your rights to do that too.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How would their refusal to accept a medical treatment impact the health of others?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Discrimination is not limited to those examples. Also, nobody is prevented from entering the Gym for not wearing a hat they just can't use the swimming pool. Surely you can see the difference between an individual refusing to accept a medical treatment versus wearing a hat in a swimming pool?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭bokale


    It's not discrimination related to a medical treatment really though is it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,666 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    yes I can see the difference, a swimming hat prevents the filters from being blocked.

    a vaccine reduces the risk of passing Covid, no vaccine means potentially killing someone and costing the economy billions

    Post edited by ted1 on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,666 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Because they can pass covid.

    a vaccine reduces the likely hood of passing it.


    its also not a medical treatment



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,706 ✭✭✭whippet




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The shorthand label “anti-vax” once had a clear meaning: namely, those who reject the prevailing western scientific orthodoxy that vaccines are a safe and effective means of protecting against infectious diseases.

    But exactly as we have seen with so many other political labels — conspiracy theorist, racist, fascist, white nationalist, anti-Semite — this precise and useful phrase has morphed far beyond its original meaning into something barely recognisable. The transformation has been deliberate, with a clear motive: to weaponise the term into a political insult designed to compel submission to decrees from the accepted orthodoxy and stigmatise dissenters to try and immediately discredit them, rather than engage with them on the merits easier to call someone "anti-vax" and move on as not have to think about the glaring hypocrisy in their own arguments.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,706 ✭✭✭whippet


    ok 👍️

    so you are not Anti-vax .. but you would have sentiments that would against the vaccine for global pandemic?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭bokale


    Haha its not your first anti vax rodeo I see .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,666 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    To a much lesser extent. The virus doesn’t develop as much and is less transmissible



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,666 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Not taking a vaccine cost billions. As the economy is shut down for longer



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,706 ✭✭✭whippet


    you'd be wasting your time trying to explain this to people who just don't want to know. The same type of people who insist that 50% vaxed and unvaxxed in ICU means that the vaccine is pointless ... despite the massive elephant in the room of the 90%+ people who are vaccinated ... so a tiny proportion of the population make up for 50% of the ICU beds.

    There really isn't a need for a Covid Cert anyway - as the unvaxxed are usually very quick to tell you that they are unvaxxed .... and they tend to use language like 'medical procedure' rather than vaccination ... and throw discrimination around a lot too. Thankfully they are in the minority and to a fair extent can just be ignored



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Legally it is. And that's what matters here.

    OP's question has been asked and answered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,706 ✭✭✭whippet


    People who ask these questions don’t want answers they want validation



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I do find it strange that those who are most fanatical with the "everything NPHET/Gov do is correct, I trust the experts" line are so obsessed with the tiny minority that won't get on board with it.

    It's almost like they need to convince themselves, daily, of their correctness.

    Most people who hold a majority held view, don't spend their time obsessing on the minority view.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,835 ✭✭✭Allinall




  • Registered Users Posts: 343 ✭✭Shilock


    I'm vaccinated and I've shared here before that I wouldn't darken the door of any place where you have to provide a vaccine passport. It's just downright unfair and isn't inclusive. Get your money back.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Why does that have to be the choice? Why does economy have to be shut down at all?



  • Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭d15ude


    "everything NPHET/Gov do is correct" no, it's certainly not all correct. But it makes more sense to trust the world wide community of scientists and virologists than some randomers on Facebook.

    Unfortunately, the minority is not "tiny" enough to not clog up our hospital beds.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Coercion, fear, convenience and complacency probably play a large part.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,666 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    the easy answer is where da fuq have you been the last 2 years?

    look at the death rates in places that didn’t shot down like Brazil.

    that question makes you look very foolish and niave.


    next you will be asking why the sun rises and sets once a day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,706 ✭✭✭whippet


    so now you are accusing me of being a NPHET / Gov fanatic - I have been very critical of the government since the start of this madness and I personally think NPHET have been over the top with their modelling and messaging.

    However - my wife has 20 years experience of working with vaccines as a pharmaceutical scientist and I trust her opinion / research / advise well before I’d trust any self declared facebook expert.

    I deal in scientific facts given to me from a trusted scientist … this will be lost on you I know .. but those are the facts



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