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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    You have a habit of dismissing out of hand anything and everything that you disagree with. You don't even acknowledge that it exists.

    Lol. The projection here. You could open a cinema.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,582 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A question:


    When do the so-called debunkers on this thread believe that measures/restrictions will be lifted in Ireland? Vaccine passports/certificates, masks, social distancing, mass testing etc. Up to now it has been all about the measures being permanent, which I agree with brianhere about, but I've never actually heard anything about when people believe normal life will resume in Ireland. That is life without restrictions. People here are absolutely confident and certain that the restrictions will be lifted. So when will they be lifted? I'm not asking for a date, just the circumstances that would allow normal life to resume. And then evidence that backs up the certainty that they will be lifted.


    It's useful to make comparisons with other countries. Countries and states with higher vaccination rates than Ireland still restrict their citizens, The latest is Sao Paolo in Brazil where 100% of adults have been vaccinated: São Paulo says it has fully vaccinated 100 percent of its adults. Will it be enough to stop omicron? - The Washington Post


    And still masks are required everywhere there, vaccine passes are required etc. Gibraltar with a high vaccination rate and loads of restrictions, Portugal, Spain.


    So what are the criteria?


    And just to add a bit to what I wrote: low numbers cases doesn't mean no restrictions in Ireland. We saw that last year during the summer when there were few cases and a tiny number of deaths. So a low number of cases doesn't get rid of them. Is it that the heath system isn't overwhelmed? It's always overwhelmed. I say that all the evidence of the past two years points to the restrictions being permanent. The extreme caution, the moving of the goalposts, the constant increase in restrictions etc. Even just imagine that this isn't the conspiracy theories' forum for a second. What evidence is there that Ireland will ever lift the restrictions?


    And not a single country that introduced the vaccine passport has got rid of it. That's worth bearing in mind.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Why would anyone answer your question given the hundreds of questions and points you've ignored?


    This question is just yet more deflection on your part because you've been backed into a corner again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,966 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    You have a systematic habit of trying to find the conspiracy whataboutery in everything and ignoring/dismissing every explanation

    We were uncertain about masks in the beginning, the world was uncertain about masks because we thought the pathogens were simply small enough to pass through them. Over time we discovered it spread predominantly on aerosols/droplets which masks could reduce, ergo health bodies, countries, etc started recommending and mandating mask use. It was normal there was confusion in the beginning due to that.

    How many times does this have to be explained to you? Is there any point? Maybe you are impervious to facts and basic logic. Your comments don't inspire much hope. There are people on this forum who believe satellites are fake, maybe you have a mind like that. Perhaps you are incapable of processing basic information that doesn't have conspiracy crapola attached to it.

    All posters can do is explain. If someone can't or doesn't want to understand either out of stupidity, ignorance, spite or whatever, nothing anyone can do.

    Look at the conspiracy theorists here, anti-mask, anti-vaccine, anti-science - you like patterns, notice a glaring one there?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Are you being deliberately obtuse?


    I am specifically talking about WHO recommending people wear masks because of political lobbying, not based on scientific evidence. Why is that hard to understand? Not talking about whether they work or not.


    Do you find it troubling that WHO recommended masks because of political lobbying? No nonsense about aerosols. The question is very simple.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,425 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    how do the government benefit by extending a measure beyond the point it is required?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What do you mean the source? Deborah Cohen said it. It's a direct quote.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,484 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Wow, someone asking when we think measures implemented to manage a pandemic will be ended. What an idiotic rhetorical question!



  • Registered Users Posts: 343 ✭✭Shilock


    The best of your post's could be the premier 🤣



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,966 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    No you are specifically bringing up this WHO crapola in response to my post about how masks work.

    Whether the WHO is run by lizard people and all are involved in a massive conspiracy or responded to lobbying from politicians from scientists because there was no consensus at the time has no bearing on the fact that pieces of fabric reduce the spread of aerosols from your mouth, ergo reduce the spread of the virus.

    Do you agree the masks reduce the spread of the virus? Yes or no.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    What was the nature of the "political lobbying"?


    WHO - not enough masks in existence - tell the general public not to use them so that they are available for health care settings

    Governments - we've managed to up the supply of masks now could you get WHO to update their statements now?

    WHO - mask supplies are now better - everyone should start wearing masks.



    What is it that you think is the conspiracy based reasons for government to have changed their positions and then asked WHO to update their recommendations? What is the plot?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,966 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    Some of these serial conspiracy posters know damn well masks work, but do you ever see them correcting someone claiming they don't? Never. More likely you'll see them thanking them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    I used to have just one on ignore but had to add 3 more recently. Some of them are just boring - repeating the same lines over and over but few posters here become pretty aggressive. I do not mind occasional insult as that is what they usually go after when they lack arguments but if it become repetitive it is boring.

    This thread is the best, pure comedy gold. No measures are permanent yet nobody knows when they will be abandoned.

    But but they are not permanent.... (or the best one "how do the government benefit by extending a measure beyond the point it is required?"



    Nobody has a clue what "required" means lol.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    "But but they are not permanent.... (or the best one "how do the government benefit by extending a measure beyond the point it is required?""


    If it's so obvious then why not spell it out for us?



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,425 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    i would have thought the definition of "required" in this instance is pretty clear. when the pandemic is over they will no longer be required. how is that difficult to understand?



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,544 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Big words + short attention spell = confusion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,966 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    You are never going to convince a flat-earther that the world is round, likewise you will never convince an anti-vaxxer. All you can do is expose their arguments as faulty. Like many conspiracy theorists and people with extreme beliefs you are ignoring posters because you can't handle logical or factual debate. Looking at other forum threads, I notice they just thread-ban a lot of these conspiracy theorists and persistent anti-vaxxers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Lol, who are you talking to if you're putting anyone who questions you or calls you out on your lies?


    It's very brave of you to ignore all of these points.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,665 ✭✭✭storker


    I'll take a stab at that and venture a guess of all COVID measures gone* between zero and nine years after COVID being beaten, based on a pretty extreme historical precedent. That precedent is the UK during the Second World War during which Britain took measures that make COVID restrictions seem like mere nuisances, such as:

    • Removal of children from their families
    • Removal of road signs
    • Mines and barbed wire on beaches
    • Requirement to carry identity cards
    • Requirement to carry a gas mask. Not a little cloth mask that fits easily in your pocket, but a big awkward thing requiring its own canvas bag for carrying (see the scene with Kenneth More and Susannah York in "The Battle of Britain").
    • Enforced blackouts
    • Conscription
    • Food and petrol rationing
    • The creation of local armed militia units

    If there had been social media at the time, this would have been a conspiracy theorist's wet dream, and the measures listed above lasted at least six years (IIRC rationing didn't end fully until 1954 - hence my outlier figure of nine years but that's just hedging). Nevertheless, all these measures are now gone - even conscription which lingered until 1963. Here the measures haven't even been in place consistently for two years, COVID isn't even beaten yet, and people are up in arms already screaming about permanent measures. The lack of a sense of perspective on display is truly shocking.


    * I believe (and hope) that some aspects of the new normal will stay e.g. voluntary mask wearing by those with respiratory illness, a change in attitude to workplace attendance when sick, and the wide retention of remote working. Not because they will be legislated, but because lessons will have been learned.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    > rationing didn't end fully until 1954 - hence my outlier figure of nine years but that's just hedging


    From speaking with relatives born during the war it certainly lasted long enough for them to have memories of ration books. I think only certain items were still included towards the end of it though.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Lol Not what he said. What a silly and transparent attempt to misrepresent a reasonable position.


    Could you now answer any of the hundreds of questions you've dodged in a similarly direct way?

    Or will you continue to ignore, deflect and whinge?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,119 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    Anyone who said in August 1914 that the war would be long and terrible and NOT over by Christmas would have been a ‘mad conspiracy theorist’

    Anyone who said in 1936 that Hitler will cause the deaths of millions and Europe will lie in ruins within a few years would have been a ‘mad conspiracy theorist’.

    The uncomfortable truth is Hitler was the ‘good guy’ compared to Stalin, wasn’t he sorting out the communists in Spain?

    The ‘conspiracy theorists’ would have been laughed at for saying Hitler was using the Spanish Civil War as a training ground for the coming world war. Of course the Stuka diving bombing tactics perfected in Spain were to used later at Dunkirk to deadly effect.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    So what are the conspiracy theorists claiming this time that will turn out to be right?

    The idea that all measures are going to be permanent?

    That the vaccines are secretly dangerous/part of a depopulation plot?

    That we're all going to get/have gotten the mark of the beast?


    When people propose ideas like there's a secret global plot to fake a pandemic to install a global communist government, what would you call them if not conspiracy theorist?



  • Registered Users Posts: 343 ✭✭Shilock


    Didn't he get Time man of the year in 1938. It was one of the worst decisions they ever made.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,765 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    "Man of the year". Not "Greatest man of the year".

    Criteria was: "The person or persons who most affected the news and our lives, for good or ill".

    Cant deny 38 was Hitlers year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,966 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    You are trying to equate people with unpopular opinions with people who claim conspiracies are happening. People who e.g. thought that World War 1 would be a long drawn out affair were not suggesting any conspiracy.

    There's 10 years worth of user conspiracy theories on this forum, feel free to point out any that turned out to be correct.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,119 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    Yes they were, in 1914 Socialists such as James Connolly correctly predicted that the young men of Europe would slaughter each other for nothing. Four years later they called it a day, the survivors went home and no one knew what is was all about.

    They weren’t called ‘conspiracy theorists’ then obviously because the term wasn’t invented until the JFK assassination but they would have been considered cranks.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,966 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Cool, I also like my war history and many also predicted they would be long conflicts, including famous generals.

    What is the conspiracy aspect of this?



This discussion has been closed.
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