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Is Ireland Racist?

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Wow Bubbly. Talk about missing the point.

    It's no wonder conversation is impossible these days. Klaz made many salient points.

    If wanting the demise of the negative aspects of the travelling culture, for the betterment of society and the general wellbeing of the travellers themselves is ethnic cleansing, then sure **** it, I'm in support of ethnic cleansing.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Funnily enough, I don't think you get it.

    That is why people roll their eyes reading about 'Oh we're not complaining about everyone'. You have, in repeated posts, stated the only things that you think make them identifiable as a distinct ethnic group should be targeted and removed.

    I haven't stated anything about Travellers, listing any qualities or behaviors about Travellers themselves. I haven't defined what a Traveller is, nor anything that makes them identifiable as a distinct ethnic group. Nothing. None at all. I linked Traveller culture and the Traveller community to a wide range of abuses, and later to unemployment... because they are representative of the overall Traveller community. (which is borne out in the statistics)

    Earlier in the thread, you made the same claims about what I've written, and just as before, these claims come from you... not from me.

    I must admit, I was quite taken back reading your last paragraph. It seems to me quite sinister for someone working with travellers to have such strong feelings about their culture and surely you should disclose these views to those who hire you to engage with them

    There's nothing sinister in not liking or appreciating Traveller culture. You're making the assumption that my dislike of Traveller culture extends on to the people I meet... it doesn't. I'm there to help them, which is what I do.

     And before you or anyone else runs off to report this post for talking about you , you introduced your specific engagement with travellers and I am talking about that very much in the context of what you have posted here.

    I don't report for those kind of opinions. I report for direct insults, or obvious trolling. That's it. You voiced an opinion... grand. I don't think it's even remotely accurate, and I find it to be rather selective, but I'm not offended.

    Let me ask you a question, would you let the people who hired you to teach travellers to read this post, that included this comment and specifically the bit in bold?

    Sure. I'd have no problem with anyone reading my posts to this or any thread. I stand by my opinions, and I'm willing to argue them. And the bit in bold is accurate in my opinion. As I said earlier, as Travellers are the same as Irish people, the only reason for such a incredible difference in abuse, failed education, unemployment, etc... is the aspect of Traveller culture. If Travellers drop the negatives of that culture, and embrace mainstream Irish culture, then they would lead much healthier, safer, and happier lives, the same as the majority of Irish people. The only difference between Irish people and Travellers being the culture they grow up in and live by.

    Or how about the travellers sitting in front of you to be taught, would you make such a statement to them? And it is quite incredible to write that bit shown in bold, and then within the same sentence be annoyed that people are comparing it to the practices of ethnic cleansin

    And back to changing the narrative. I wasn't annoyed at people comparing it to the practices of ethnic cleansing.. As for my teaching, you have no idea what I was teaching, but that's not stopping you in the slightest... it's quite interesting to see how you project ideas on to others, interjecting assumptions as if they have any validity without any facts or actual information about the subject. i,e, my teaching roles.

    As for 'woke posts' being hyper agressive? That made me laugh, Look at post #355. Just 4 posts before your own. What would you describe that style?

    It's irrelevant because it doesn't take away from the hyper aggressive nature of woke posters. They don't cancel each other out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,685 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    If Klaz made salient points, you wouldn't be trying to tweak them. This is what they said in their latest post, and there have been others.

    Rather than discuss the idea the Travellers would be healthier, safer, happier, etc without Traveller culture, instead, the view is to talk about ethnic cleansing or the push the outrage over being racist.

    In their view, there is no element of the traveller culture that is worth retaining, if that isn't trying to eradicate a culture, what is it?

    And as you have done, and I expect Klaz to try to go down the same route and claim, 'Oh I'm only talking about the negative aspects' but they have repeatedly made it clear that they do not thing there is anything positive within the culture that can be identifiable as being of that culture.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You're accusing The Dunne of tweaking points?

    In their view, there is no element of the traveller culture that is worth retaining, if that isn't trying to eradicate a culture, what is it?

    Where did I state that there was no element of Traveller culture worth retaining?


    Oh.. and I've decided not to continue debating with you, because you're so damn dishonest with your own tweaking of statements, and making claims based on things that weren't said. There's no point engaging with you because you'll simply continue to argue points that weren't made, repeating them in the hope that readers will assume them to be true.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ah ok. No problem so.

    I think any reasonable person who read the paragraph you quoted wouldn't see it as someone who is a fan of ethnic cleansing, especially when put in the context of all the other paragraphs.

    No real point in talking to you about it.



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  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That poster has advocated over and over for the removal of travellers culture. This is why I say that discrimination against travellers is acceptable in this country. To suggest forcing a people to give up their culture and become part of a different culture is ethnic cleansing. We have seen it worldwide.

    Let's not try and change anything, let's just get rid altogether.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,685 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    And there it is 'I'm only talking about the negatives within the culture'. As I pointed out in my last post, that isn't what you did. You categorically stated traveller culture was bad and elements that are identifiable as such should be removed.

    Your words are literally there in black and white.


    Rather than discuss the idea the Travellers would be healthier, safer, happier, etc without Traveller culture

    And earlier you stated that if the negative elements of the culture were removed, there would be nothing left that would make them identifiable as a separate entity to all other Irish.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Let's not try and change anything, let's just get rid altogether.

    How has that worked out during the entire period that the State has provided financial and other supports to the Traveller community?

    Have the rates/percentages of unemployment, domestic abuse, drug abuse, school dropouts, etc decline much during that period?



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,685 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    I think any reasonable person

    You're version of reasonable, or a more widely accepted one?

    You and I disagree frequently on a range of topics, this is one of the ones that leaves little to no room for misinterpretation. The poster has repeatedly stated that the community would be better off without their culture.

    Just because, and thankfully, that that doesn't mean they are advocating for the eradicating of the people, the desire to remove anything that makes them identifiable as distinct ethnic group is exactly what it sounds like.

    But, if the position here is that 'Oh the woke people are saying we want to kill all travellers, then go ahead and fight that fight', no one is saying that.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Of course, I'm talking about the negatives (as I'm against supporting Traveller culture). Oh... let's see.. does metalworking, and some old traditional singing outweigh the negatives of domestic violence, sexual abuse, child abuse, prostitution, etc? Oh! Yes... I see exactly what you mean now.

    haha.. I'm done. There really is no point continuing.



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  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Lists out criminal offences that are committed by everyone in society🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭BattleCorp1


    The traveller population is 0.6% of the population. The number of females in Ireland is slightly more than the number of males (98.59 males per 100 females) so it's fair to say that traveller women make up 0.3% of the population yet they account for 22% of those in prison.

    So yeah, try and deflect and say everyone has a problem with criminality but it's pretty clear which culture has the biggest problem when it comes to obeying the law.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,685 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Now you are talking about the negatives. You weren't earlier, and weren't previously in the thread already. You're last sentence which I quoted a number of times was categoric. It didn't need to be, you made it so.

    And no one is saying the negatives should be ignored or tolerated, that's another strawman you and others on here can take out back and kick the sh*t out of it for the day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,891 ✭✭✭✭Rothko


    It seems impossible to have a decent debate or conversation on this site.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,685 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Well, I think you'll find what is happening is a debate.

    What do you think is missing? Everyone agreeing and just repeating the same points? That's not a debate though is it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,952 ✭✭✭kravmaga




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    The same usual trite shyte where you trott out everyone is subject to the same laws and everyone is expected to obey the laws.

    You use the same argument to try sidestep issues with terrorist leanings and connections from some immigrants and migrants you want to invite into Ireland.

    Shure there are laws, everything will be grand.🙄

    You always conveniently avoid actually commenting on the fact that some people from certain groups are way more likely to disobey and ignore certain laws.

    Nah there are criminals everywhere is your only answer.

    No it is not fooking ethnic clensing.

    Or would you actually say that Papua New Guinea authorities are wrong in wiping out the culture of cannibalism and head hunting practiced by some tribes who were unconnected from modern world until recently and that the authorities are engaged in ethnic cleansing these tribes ?

    FFS knowing your slant about protecting cultures and them being all as good as one another you would probably oppose people condemning them 🙄

    Same point made about cultural practice of FGM.

    What about culture of honour killings?

    Ah but shure there are laws so no need to confront the cultures that support and encourage such practices.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    Your breath of direct, first-hand life experiences is really quite extraordinary Bubbly.

    If the discussion pivots to migrant crime in Germany or Sweden, you can tap into your pool of law enforcement contacts in those countries. When traveller behaviors and culture are analyzed, you happen to know a traveller who is a high flyer in international banking, no less.

    Clearly, you enjoy an astonishingly varied life, that exposes you to a huge diversity of people...



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well I'm sorry that I know people. I'm sure you know people do you not?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Funnily enough they are always lucky they never run into the less desirable ones from these groups that other, perhaps less fortunate, people happen to encounter.

    I am not allowed discuss …



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    I know lots of people too Bubbly.

    However, I could never claim to have the diversity of first-hand experience that you routinely cite. It's truly extraordinary..



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I meet plenty of less desirable people, on a daily basis. probably more then yourself. Which is why I understand that all people can and do, do wrong.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Not at all. Said traveller is from my home county. I met police from many countries while working overseas. Perfectly normal I would have thought.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    Gosh no.

    Your breath of personal and professional experience is anything but normal. How many other posters can leverage an international law enforcement network or are personally acquainted with travellers, who are are high flying professionals in financial services?

    I'll wager, not very many.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't think it's in anyway out of the ordinary. I'm amazed that you're so shocked by me knowing one traveller from my home county and police from other countries.

    Surely you also know people from other countries, considering you lived and worked for years in a different country? I would be more surprised if you didn't know people of other nationalities.

    There is nothing amazing, no matter how sarcastic you are



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    There's no need to be so prickly. We all know regular people from other countries and many of us have met travellers throughout the course of our lives.

    However, personally knowing a traveller who is a high-flying international banker is somewhat atypical, no?



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    He is very unusual, which is why everyone knows who he is.

    And police are regular people too you know



  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    Don't forget there extensive knowledge of the balkans.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    So we've agreed that this particular person is an outlier.

    So what particular qualities does he possess and what behaviors does he display that differentiate him from other travellers?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,685 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Do you similarly doubt the person who has experience of teaching travellers? Or is it only when there is a positive story that you think an experience doesn't hold water?

    Or how about the person who thinks we should move to 'the back arse of nowhere' for a year before expressing an opinion on what racism is? Do you think that poster is just back from such a location?



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