Gardai conspire to ignore thousands of reported crimes

salonfire · 06-07-2021 6:50pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Have you worked as a Garda? Have you worked at all? Money is the driving factor behind most employment. The money for being a Garda, starting at 31k, is scandelous considering what you have to do, put up with, and do without, it affects family, relationships, mental health and no supports to speak of, where the government, management and a large number of the public are against you regardless of what you do, where there's no mental health support worth mentioning, unsuitable equipment and vehicles, constant work usually with no breaks, mandatory court on days off (if you happened to book a holiday, you need a thesis of evidence to avoid court). I can go on and on, but it's been done to death many times already.

People are lining up because it's a government job, apparantly has some security with it, and this made up "golden pension" that non-Gardai keep harking on about. And you need high numbers applying, because most likely a high percentage of them won't be suitable.

I brought it up because, based on my own experience, it's not worth it. I'm currently doing a job for 37k a year, and the stress is about 1% of when I was a Garda. It doesn't have this supposed security, but I have my doubts about the future alleged security of being a Garda.

I am of the belief that a high wage prevents corruption, but it also requires decent management, which doesn't exist either, as it's a self serving role that most officers are in only to move up to the more lucrative positions, so they will crap all over their members in order to show that they can "make the hard decisions", instead of supporting their members when needed.

What that wage doesn't mention is how much of it is automatically gone before you get it. Between the Garda Medical Aid and all the other little bits of coverage you basically need as a serving Garda, plus loads of other little deductions that the general public don't have, that 31k drops dramatically. Yeah, you have the Garda Credit Unions to cover that with loands galore, and then you effectively tied into a never ending circle of loans and repayments.

But it's ok, continue to believe that the wage is appropriate to the work they do. I'm sure those against increasing the wage of a Garda have vast experience of being one, so are well equipped to make that call.

I like the way you add up the deductions but not mention all the allowances which also add up. How very cute of you. Shift allowance, boot and uniform allowance, holiday allowance, parading allowance as well as any overtime.

mikethecop · 06-07-2021 6:50pm

Oranage2 wrote: »

Of course I know where they are, BS and N

is that supposed to mean something ?

Oranage2 · 06-07-2021 6:52pm

mikethecop wrote: »

is that supposed to mean something ?

Well they're the places where the call centres are for the 999 calls, anyway Mikey it was really nice chatting, I've given real call scenarios, take it or leave it I don't care.

salonfire · 06-07-2021 6:56pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

but I have read enough of your anti garda rubbish to know you won't change

You'll never make detective then so. In a thread openly criticizing Gardai, I made one comment and that was to challenge the usual propaganda from the public sector that they are not paid enough.

I have not criticized Gardai or posted anything anti-garda.

mikethecop · 06-07-2021 6:58pm

Oranage2 wrote: »

Well they're the places where the call centres are for the 999 calls, anyway Mikey it was really nice chatting, I've given real call scenarios, take it or leave it I don't care.

no they arent

do you think they are secret locations or something ? :pac::pac::pac:

i ll leave it thanks , see ya next anti garda thread

Potential-Monke · 06-07-2021 8:22pm

Oranage2 wrote: »

Ha you're a petty one, anyway I can't believe you think this is fake, you know gardai think they're a law unto themselves being one yourself. I assume you've never heard an emergency call or how these gardai operate so can you kindly be quiet and keep your mouth shut, I'm not paying your wages for you to talk nonsense about something you've no clue about.

While serving, I was involved in the creation and implementation of regional call centres outside of Dublin. 5 were set up, Limerick, Cork, Galway, Waterford and I can't remember the last one. These were created to take all the 999 calls passed from BT to the Regional centre. These calls are then assigned out to the Division/District/Station. Then, for a number of years after that, I worked specifically in one of these Regional offices. I took umpteen 999 calls. I've already explained in a previous post the kind of calls Gardai get. But don't let my first hand implementation and experience get in the way of your rant.

I do love the 'I pay your wages' line, always a good one to use... :rolleyes:

Oranage2 wrote: »

That's the truth, Niner obviously works in Dublin with civilian call takers that have to do everything by the book, but try some of the country's 999 lines, pig ignorant gardai that think they're above the law. This article only says 1 year but what about all the other years, there must be a million calls.

As above, all 999 calls go to BT, and they either send or pass the call to the regional centres, who then assign out. This has been happening since about 2014. Here's and article from 2017 about 999 calls in 2016:

"In total, 1.7 million calls were made to the emergency services call-line last year, but less than half of these were logged as normal calls and directed to gardaí or fire, ambulance, Coast Guard, and mountain rescue services.

According to department figures, 772,856 genuine calls were made for emergency services requests in 2016.

Other calls made included 635,537 silent calls, 149,642 calls with noisy lines, and 31,689 calls recorded as “children playing”.

A percentage of calls also included misdials, requests for non-emergency services, and abusive callers. These calls together made up 169,077 of 999 and 112 calls last year."

salonfire wrote: »

I like the way you add up the deductions but not mention all the allowances which also add up. How very cute of you. Shift allowance, boot and uniform allowance, holiday allowance, parading allowance as well as any overtime.

What's a parading allowance? Never heard of that one. And holiday allowance? Do you mean annual leave? The rest of the allowences are pittance, and the forced mandatory overtime is something a lot of Gardai would prefer to do without. Do you not think they should get paid for working beyond the scheduled hours? Or working non-social hours? I get an extra 7k a year for working nights in the private sector.

And I didn't add them all up, I referenced them.

Ten of Swords · 06-07-2021 8:22pm

Oranage2 do not post in this thread again

pah · 06-07-2021 9:12pm

Oranage2 wrote: »

Anyway I worked in a job that allowed me to be able to listen to emergency calls, and I heard a lot of ignorant gardai, a lot of the time the garda would just hang up the phone if the person was foreign/drunk/traveler and be told to ring back when they made sense, so I'm not surprised in the slightest at these huge numbers of mishandled calls.

What's a reasonable amount of time to stay on the line with a drunk or foreign person that you cannot understand? 2 minutes, 5minutes, 10 minutes? Where you're no closer to understanding the caller than you were in the first minute? With more emergency calls coming in behind them?

mikethecop · 06-07-2021 9:48pm

salonfire wrote: »

I like the way you add up the deductions but not mention all the allowances which also add up. How very cute of you. Shift allowance, boot and uniform allowance, holiday allowance, parading allowance as well as any overtime.

What is shift allowance ? do you mean nights and weekends ? fairly common in any job where 24 hour a day cover is required . fire ambulance etc, i even got that working in a factory one summer years ago. the folks in tesco and circle K get this too :pac::pac:
holiday allowance ? whats that ditto parading allowance ?

over time has to be worked for too you know its not free ,
its almost like the more you work the more you get paid ,
do you resent that ?

Muahahaha · 20-10-2021 2:16pm

Gardaí used WhatsApp to discuss how to ‘circumvent’ emergency 999 calls

A senior officer is providing ‘crucial information’ to the Policing Authority about hundreds of thousands of cancelled 999 calls

A senior serving garda member has provided “integral intelligence” in relation to the matter, which is currently under investigation by the force and the Policing Authority.

It emerged on Friday that an additional 19,000 emergency calls to gardaí were potentially cancelled — without going through proper procedures and in spite of the ongoing public controversy surrounding the issue.

Imagine getting paid to do your job and then discussing in Whatapp groups how not to do your job so you can get out of responding to 999 emergency calls. Unbelievable.

.

Shebean · 20-10-2021 2:44pm

I see Drew Harris is saying the proposed powers of the Garda ombudsman are 'disproportionate'. So much for cleaning house.

21-10-2021 8:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117608558#Comment_117608558

I wonder what proportion of these calls that were "ignored" were from the quoted cohort, or the same timewasters ringing time and again.

If one is called for the 10th time by the same person for the same sh1t, i would hang up too

Potential-Monke · 21-10-2021 10:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048277#Comment_118048277

I think the main part he's against is giving GSOC the power to search without a warrant, which I agree is disproportionate. A Garda can only search without warrant if they witness a crime there and then, otherwise a warrant is needed (save for a the personal drugs search, which requires suspicion there and then, and possibly soke Road traffic legislation, but again a there and then search). If the same type of power was proposed to be given to the Gardai, there'd be uproar. GSOC don't, and shouldn't, act on there and then. They're an investigative body, they shouldn't act without proof or strong evidence, they have time.

Granted, I haven't read in detail the proposal, just going on what I've heard/read, which isn't a lot.

@ChocolateIce oh there's plenty of them. Where I was based, we had a lad that would ring in 7/8 times on the 999 per night for about 3 weeks. He'd stop for a few weeks and repeat. And it was only ever to abuse whoever answered. Tried bringing him to court, but legislation is lacking. And that was just 1, there were many. And plenty who would ring, get a car, refuse the car, and ring again. Repeat ad nauseum. You can't win. I don't agree with cancelling a call, but I personally have changed categories, because people mostly don't know the law, and mix up burglary and robbery very often (burglary is theft from a property more or less, robbery is theft from a person where threats or violence was used).

I've hung up on people on 999. I've had people temporarily blocked from ringing 999 (very hard to do, but can be done). Very few 999 calls are actually emergencies. But the public isn't aware of the categorisation, and definitely not aware of operational resources and activities.

If they're lumping in recategorised with cancelled, yeah, that's probably a huge number. And some cancellations will be merited. But if genuine calls were cancelled, yeah, that's wrong.

21-10-2021 10:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048277#Comment_118048277

What powers are GSOC lacking? Why would they need to search without a warrant? Why should people who work as gardai not be afforded the same legal rights as those who are not gardai?

GeneHunt · 04-11-2021 11:53am

Article in the Belfast Telegraph last week.

Gardai explanations for cancelled 999 calls ‘perplexing in the extreme’

Policing Authority chairman Bob Collins criticised explanations offered by senior

Gardai for the controversy surrounding thousands of cancelled calls.

By James Ward, PA

October 28 2021 06:27 PM

The chair of the Policing Authority has said he is “perplexed in the extreme” by

explanations offered by An Garda Siochana over the cancellation of thousands

of 999 calls.

An internal Garda review, focusing on 23,000 calls made between January 1

2019 and October 31 2020, found that 2,689 calls to the emergency helpline

were invalid cancellations.

Gardai said the “key problem” regarding those calls was that they were not

properly recorded on their Pulse system, a step that would allow for “further

investigation and follow up”.

The review identified 114 calls, 5% of the invalid cancelled calls, which were

described as “crime incidents”.

Despite this, Deputy Commissioner Anne Marie McMahon gave the Policing

Authority a categorical assurance that no individual had come to any physical

harm as a result of cancelled calls.

She told a meeting on Thursday: “What I’m saying is that 114 calls have now

been transferred onto Pulse, and based on our victim engagement, and our

subsequent call backs arising from this review, we are satisfied that no harm

was caused by lack of initial engagement.”

Ms McMahon said that “there were no calls cancelled, every call was answered”.

She said there was engagement with every call, but that they may have been

“prematurely closed or inappropriately closed.”

“The assurance I can provide is that that at the outset, there was a service

provided and there was a decision made by the dispatcher and those responding

to the call” she added.

However she said the failure to upload incidents to the PULSE system created a

“gap” in respect of future calls, which could “potentially pose a risk for the victim.”

However, Garda Commissioner Drew Harris said it was “a very nuanced picture”

when asked if anyone had been physically harmed as a result of the controversy.

“In terms of of physical harm, there was an absence of investigation around

offences, a range of offences. But also issues around barring orders, etc.

“The difficult thing in this is there was a failure to act.

“There was a failure for us to follow through on our policies in terms of ongoing

examination or ongoing call back to that victim and support for that victim.

“I take very seriously that 114 offenses have been were missed at the time,

subsequently now recorded.”

The Chair of the Policing Authority Bob Collins slammed the explanations given

by the senior Gardai, and said they had contradicted what he had previously been

told on the subject.

He said: “Just going back to what Deputy Commissioner McMahon said… that no

issue arose in relation to responding to calls or dispatching units. Every call was

answered.

“We know every time everybody rings 999 they get an answer. The question is

whether there was action following the answer.

“And Deputy Commissioner McMahon seems to be saying that in every case there

was a service provided, because a unit was dispatched in every case.

“This is not what An Garda Siochana said, this is not was said to me when I was in

the command and control centre in Galway for the north-western region.

“I listened to calls, you listened to calls Commissioner, more of them than I did.

Other colleagues listened to calls.

“They did not represent the provision of a service that would allow one to say that

there were no issues.

“That every call was answered, a service provided to everybody, except in this tiny

number of of incidents – but 114 isn’t a tiny number – that there may have been

issues of no follow through.

“I’m perplexed in the extreme at this stage in terms of the apparently shifting

position.”

A clearly frustrated Mr Collins questioned why Gardai were now insisting every call

was answered, and questioned if it was worth continuing the conversation until an

independent report on the matter is completed.

Derek Penman, a former Chief Inspector of Constabulary in Scotland, has been

appointed to conduct a preliminary review.

Mr Collins said: “No one has suggested at any stage in this that people ring 999

and the call isn’t answered.

“People ring 999 and a story is told or a history is taken, and then nothing happens.

“No unit is dispatched, no service is provided, and then nothing is recorded because

the call is cancelled.

“Information is taken inaccurately and Gardai are dispatched to an address where

they have no information about it or they’re dispatched to a wrong address.

“And we have seen and we have heard that there can’t be a proper service in those

circumstances.

“I find it difficult to understand how that kind of categorical statement can be made

at this stage of the game.

“And part of me wonders whether there is any point in continuing a conversation

until such time as we get Mr. Penman’s review.”

The meeting also heard that up to 70 cancelled 999 calls have come to Garda

attention since the controversy came to light.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/gardai-explanations-for-cancelled-999-calls-perplexing-in-the-extreme-40994523.html

Muahahaha · 04-11-2021 3:32pm

Some pretty lousy excuses from senior Garda management there. They seem to be happy to report that no harm came from them not dealing adequately with the 999 calls. Im not sure how they can be so certain of that either, for all they know someone who rang them could be lying dead in a house or apartment right now. Even if not should the malpractice continue it is only a matter of time before someone becomes a victim of Garda inaction to 999 calls.

Its actually crazy stuff, dealing with 999 calls is literally one of their most vital functions and now we know that this hasnt been happening and there is even Gardai in Whatsapp groups discussing how to get away with it.

GeneHunt · 01-12-2021 5:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118435#Comment_118118435

Looks like the Policing Authority Report echoes your opinion.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40755921.html

GeneHunt · 01-12-2021 6:21pm

The Minister of Justice Helen McEntee is putting the Commissioner under pressure now

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40756959.html

Muahahaha · 01-12-2021 6:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118252302#Comment_118252302

Interesting articles, especiallly Harris saying they are not putting it down to a systems failure when thats exactly what he was trying to do at the Policing Authority meeting last June when he claimed the call taking software wasnt up to scratch.

I readn another article somewhere which said a rape victim never got a follow up call from Gardai after reporting the crime becasue they had cancelled her call. We've still yet to hear about the group of Gardai in a Whatsapp chat group discussing how to cancel 999 calls and get away with it so this saga has more to play out yet.

GeneHunt · 03-12-2021 2:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118252584#Comment_118252584

I just found that article on the Irish Independent.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/rape-of-female-among-114-incidents-not-properly-followed-up-due-to-999-call-cancellations-report-41103006.html

Muahahaha · 03-12-2021 5:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263073#Comment_118263073

Yeah thats the article I was talking about. This bit stands out

There were a total of 114 crime incidents identified among the cancelled calls with Gardaí saying some of these are now statute barred and may have no criminal justice outcome.

The crimes included the rape of a female, a sexual assault, a drunk driving incident as well as multiple assaults and incidents relating to barring or safety orders.

So there is an unconvicted rapist walking around free becasue Gardai didnt do their job, he is free to rape again . And thats just one of 114 cases where the criminal got away scot free becasue of Garda inaction. Theres also 2,800 cases of domestic abuse where the Gardai cancelled 999 calls as well. They've only managed to speak with just over half of those victims which is pretty shoddy, god only knows what situation the other half are in.

Potential-Monke · 04-12-2021 9:58pm

@Muahahaha "alleged" rapist. But that's if the allegation was genuine to begin with. I see this is nearly every thread about something that is polarising; refusing to accept any possible reasons why things were cancelled, but completing accepting the reports as 100% accurate (which, let me tell you from experience, usually are not). I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I can't honestly say it 100% did happen.

Same as any other job, there are bad eggs everywhere. Let this investigation run its course before we start throwing accusations around, then go for gold. I also thought that civillians took the 999 calls and input them on the system, which the Garda then assigns out to available resources. At least, that's how it used to work in the DMR control centre. Pretty sure that's how it works around the country now (when I left, I was working in a regional control centre and there were supposed to be civvies taking the calls, I think they finally arranged it since then).

Yes, I'm defensive of it, because I worked it for 9 years, but I won't make an excuse for something that has been proven. I will however continue to question peoples emotional reactions based on some evidence without the full story. I've given my experiences of taking 999 calls throughout this thread, and while the media would have you thinking every 999 call is super serious and extremely important, fact is that only a handful of them are. The rest are "normal" operational cases which didn't need the 999 call, but people ring that for every minor thing (because it's free).

I will 100% stand behind any findings. But like everytning Garda (and indeed, humanity) related, there's 3 sides to every story.

GeneHunt · 14-12-2021 5:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118270104#Comment_118270104

I'm not sure where your going with your argument! Yes it's an "alleged" rape, but surely the call should not have been cancelled. It should have be investigated at the time when it was reported to the Gardai. In fact, if it was a "genuine" rape - DNA evidence has probably been lost, potential victim's detailed description of the attacker and CCTV footage probably gone too, this guy is still free to do it again, that's if he* hasn't already raped someone else (* I'm assuming it's a man!). If it was NOT a "genuine" rape, the "alleged" attacker then has probably lost evidence, CCTV footage etc to prove his innocence. This lad will have an allegation of rape on him for the rest of his life.

14-12-2021 7:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118321042#Comment_118321042

When a report comes out finding genuine serious crimes were ignored, not just alllegations, i may pay attention

Potential-Monke · 14-12-2021 8:32pm

@GeneHunt yes, everything you described is possible, just like it being a false/bogus report is also just as likely to be true, because it's only speculation at the moment. I said that I will stand behind any genuine findings, but condemning because of allegations is not how this does/should work.

Muahahaha · 15-12-2021 6:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118321797#Comment_118321797

You should probably read the Policing Authorty report then becasue thats exactly what they found.

There were a total of 114 crime incidents identified among the cancelled calls with Gardaí saying some of these are now statute barred and may have no criminal justice outcome.

The crimes included the rape of a female, a sexual assault, a drunk driving incident as well as multiple assaults and incidents relating to barring or safety orders.

Muahahaha · 15-12-2021 7:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118322090#Comment_118322090

How can it be a crime when the Gardai didnt investigate it in the first place? I could murder someone, Gardai dont bother investigating therefore Ive murdered someone but it isnt a crime because they havent convicted me of it. Someone is still dead though

15-12-2021 7:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118327017#Comment_118327017

of course it's a crime. You know all crimes don't have people convicted right?

Potential-Monke · 15-12-2021 8:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118327017#Comment_118327017

My point is they're saying it was cancelled, but we don't know why. I'm saying the possibility is that it wasn't a sexual assault call at all. We don't know at this point, just what the allegation was and that it was cancelled for some reason. Maybe it was a nuisance caller known to the local station. Maybe it was kids ringing 999 and pretending. Maybe it was legitimate. We don't know, only that the headline selling "rape call cancelled" is what is being said.

And as bubblypop said, you don't need a conviction for a crime, but you do need proof. Right now, we don't have either and we don't know why it was cancelled. I'm waiting for the why instead of jumping the gun. And I will stand behind any findings that explains that.

15-12-2021 9:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118326959#Comment_118326959

"alleged"

Gardai conspire to ignore thousands of reported crimes

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