Working From Home Megathread

Mrs OBumble · 15-12-2021 9:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323486#Comment_118323486

If you are actually a contractor, then you will be free to choose your own work location, hours, etc - just so long as you deliver the results per the contract. To get paid, you submit an invoice, and you manage your own tax - so you can claim the cost of office accommodation as a business expense.

I suspect you're actually an agency worker, in which case your beef is with the agency, ie your employer. I spent a few years in a similar scenario: the direct employees were very well looked after, and had some WFH, while agency workers induction included the line "You are expected to be at your workstation during working hours, unless you are on an authorised break."

As people have said, WFH is not new. Neither are the challenges which accompany it.

Personally I was delighted to leave the MNC, and end up in a company where everyone is located in the same country, most in the same city. Far fewer misunderstandings happen during the working day.

thomas 123 · 15-12-2021 9:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118327765#Comment_118327765

I hope I missed something…

15-12-2021 9:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323588#Comment_118323588

I get €3.20 a day. Light is on in office room for about 2 hours at this time of year. I put the heat on in the morning rather than overnight. Probably an extra hour a day on the coldest of days. Laptop likely uses 3 cents per day of electricity. Some days the external monitors aren't on, probably average 3 hours a day. There's another 400Wh.

Pretty sure the €3.20 covers it handy enough. Actually, I know it more than covers it. And I never had to ask for it.

As for space, I'm sure whatever spiders were knocking around in the spare room are just glad of the company.

15-12-2021 9:57pm

Also while people will say they'd switch jobs or take a paycut to WFH, I would too if I was in an office, Gonna take a wild guess that most people wouldn't be stupid enough to shout about it during a recruitment process though.

AndrewJRenko · 15-12-2021 10:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118327578#Comment_118327578

Except that's not the choice.

The choice is;

1) Using a bit of server bandwidth, or

2) Using a sh1tload of server bandwidth.

That's the choice you make. If you leave video on by default for all meetings, you're in option 2 territory.

AndrewJRenko · 15-12-2021 10:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118324847#Comment_118324847

Well, no. As with all matters relating to employment, they are costs for the employer. In most cases, they would have been enabling WFH to some extent long before Covid, so these costs aren't new. They well have had to bump up investment in this area, but either way, it is an employer cost.

It would be reasonable to put such costs on the table when calculating cost savings arising from office space reductions. I would suspect they would barely be material in the context of overall cost savings.

15-12-2021 11:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328062#Comment_118328062

Up to 300Kb/s for audio only and anywhere between 600k & 6m for video, power wise it doesn't make too much difference to the hardware switching/ routing that traffic and is only significant if your running on bogband or the office internet that is hosting the call is inadequate.

thomas 123 · 16-12-2021 4:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328062#Comment_118328062

I think your estimation of how much damage data centers do to the environment is incorrect and probably based on some populism.

Ireland has more data centers than we need for Irish people - they are using a lot of power for sure but they are in no way as destructive as a number of people getting into a vehicle(electric or combustion) and traveling to work to do something that can be done without the traveling. + this is without including things like international travel for meetings or incidental enviromemtal impact (food, clothes, traffic etc etc)

AndrewJRenko · 16-12-2021 4:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118328647#Comment_118328647

It's not a matter of what your local connection is. It is taking up resources somewhere - maybe in whatever data centre Zoom use, or maybe at Internet Exchange Points or maybe at your local network provider. It IS consuming substantial additional resources, often for little or no real benefit. It is the online equivalent of taking your 4.0L Range Rover for a 1km spin to the shop to buy milk, when you really should have walked.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118331738#Comment_118331738

You'd really want to share the numbers to make that arguement, but either way, you're comparing against the wrong thing.

It's not a question of data centres vs international travel or data centres vs commuting travel.

The real question is data centres (where people use audio by default and switch on video where necessary) vs data centres (where everyone switches on video by default, all of the time). The latter consumes more resources than the former.

Dav010 · 16-12-2021 4:55pm

I’m just going to say it, I don’t care how much bandwidth I use on my zoom call, nor my Netflix etc. You really are a head wrecker when you start on about this. I drive a Range Rover, it’s lovely.

AndrewJRenko · 16-12-2021 5:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118331877#Comment_118331877

Have fun explaining to your children or grandchildren why you've destroyed their planet.

Cyrus · 16-12-2021 5:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118331784#Comment_118331784

how do you define when video is necessary and when it isnt?

AndrewJRenko · 16-12-2021 5:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118331937#Comment_118331937

You use your head. Just like the decision to walk or drive to the shops, there's no rule or Government agency looking over you.

Just use your head, and don't have video on for the sake of having video on. If you're having a webinar-type session, you can probably tell all attendees except the presenter to switch off video. If you're having a 1:1 with someone that you've been working with for years, you can probably switch off the video after the intros.

Really the problem here is that 'the polluter pays' principle ISN'T applying. If the host was paying some kind of fee or chargeback, and the video charge for 5x the audio charge, you could be damn sure that hosts would work out how to minimise video fairly quickly.

16-12-2021 7:10pm

A friend of mine in recruitment is saying that its looking like two days in the office and three days from home is the promise now after Covid . Its better than nothing really but some companies are offering permanent work from home after Covid.

Anyone else be happy with this setup? I think it suits me greatly as will open up the doors of working anywhere in Ireland as wouldn't mind two days of commuting 90 mins to work and 90 mins back. I couldn't handle the five days of that commute.

completedit · 16-12-2021 7:26pm

3 days in the office just seems to be a arbritary compromise to veer too much off pre covid status quo. There's no real reason for it but seems like this is what they're settling on.

16-12-2021 7:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118332610#Comment_118332610

I think that two days in the office gives someone huge flexibility in where to live. Maybe only even one commute in and out if a bed can be found in Dublin for a night. 3 days in the office is much less flexible, and I wouldn’t be happy with that. I’d definitely look elsewhere

16-12-2021 7:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118331784#Comment_118331784

You really believe that you can compare voice & video data transfers to using a car verses cycling, not realistic at all.

Sitting on a near empty train verses a full one would be a farer comparison as most energy is consumed in the operation of the hardware, not the data flying through it.

Compare the KWH used by a fully loaded train with an empty one, you won't find much difference.

16-12-2021 7:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118332647#Comment_118332647

Don't entertain him. Trolling since day 1. I've put him on ignore.

Must live a sad life.

16-12-2021 7:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118332669#Comment_118332669

Yeah I know, but sometimes I like to see just how far he can go off in his fairyland!

JTMan · 16-12-2021 8:18pm

Apple, have joined Google, Uber and others in (1) cancelling return-to-office in early 2022 and (2) no longer naming a date for return to office. Apple are also paying 1k per employee for home office equipment. Apple already pay for devices.

https://twitter.com/ZoeSchiffer/status/1471236946160619524

bokale · 16-12-2021 8:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118332647#Comment_118332647

There is a difference in something like Zoom providing an audio call vs a video call. It's not just data running through a pipe, there is server side processing of the data needed too.

AndrewJRenko · 16-12-2021 9:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118332647#Comment_118332647

Except it's not a train. Actually, I think I compared walking instead of driving, not cycling instead of driving, but that's by the by.

The issue is that video is far more demanding on infrastructure than voice. That's a fact. You can pretend that it's really hard to consider switching off video when not used if you like, but it's no more difficult that turning off the light switch when you leave a room. You can choose to waste energy if you like. In this scenario, it won't cost you anything directly out of your pocket. but it will cost the planet.

It's not just me saying this stuff. There is an emerging movement on digital waste. See item 24 at http://digitalwasteaudit.com/digitalwasteexplained.html for more details. You can choose to be proactive or reactive here.

An Ri rua · 16-12-2021 9:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118327852#Comment_118327852

Right over your head, clearly 😁

How dare you? Greta has you under obs.

wes · 17-12-2021 3:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118332850#Comment_118332850

My job is offering something like this, I am on leave until the new year, but will be taking advantage to buy myself some nice new furniture for WFH.

Fr Tod Umptious · 17-12-2021 11:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118332518#Comment_118332518

Pre COVID how long distance wise, not time wise was your commute ?

If you are thinking of anywhere in Ireland a 90min commute will not actually get you that far from Dublin.

The eastern outskirts of Galway city or Limerick city will get you to the M50 in 90mins, but that is 120KM p/h full driving, that can be pretty taxing.

And this is why hybrid is a cod.

If you can do your job from home why not have the option of doing it all the time from home, with just ad-hoc office visits as required.

Then you could live anywhere in Ireland.

"Hybrid" has been the go to word this last year for both employer and employees because it's a "comfort blanket".

It's a comfort blanket for you as you said "Its better than nothing really", but I'm sure you would love it to be 100% WFH.

It's a comfort blanket for the employer who sees it as at least their office investment is not totally lost and they can try and keep the idea of teamwork and collaboration going.

My company is 5 miles away, a 10 min drive, on country roads, 50 miles a week commute, pre COVID, I'm WFH since Mar 2020.

I'm looking to move jobs for other reasons.

Companies in the two big cities (both about 75 miles away) are offering me jobs and telling me it's hybrid 2 days a week etc etc

I tell them no way, any increased salary I get will be lost in having my commute go from 50miles a week to 300miles a week.

If you want me you need to give me 100% WFH.

And that is the way it will go, hybrid for the sake of it will die and people who want to get 100% WFH jobs find them with companies who offer it and commercial real estate leases expire or are re-negotiated and companies will downsize so more companies can offer 100% WFH

And there will always be a place for the people who want 100% in the office also.

17-12-2021 11:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118335761#Comment_118335761

Have to agree. I've been saying this all along, hybrid is the worst of both worlds

That being said there are some who value the work week being split into a hybrid option so I guess for those folks it's perfect.

Personally, I don't plan to ever work onsite for any employer for the rest of my career and will freely jump jobs to ensure that

Pussyhands · 17-12-2021 11:22am

I don't think I'll be able go back to the office again, especially 5 days a week.

The idea of going in 5 days a week seems completely alien to me now. I feel like how did I even do it up to now.

On the negatives, I don't have anywhere for a desk so I am lying on a bed all day working. As well as that my diet is gone to hell, too easy to have a bag of sweets beside me. And I always wear casual clothes now which I probably look horrible in.