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Why do Landlords feel entitled to rent increases?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭sk8board


    Yep most is fixed. In my case the amount I deduct is about 20% of total rent, including capital allowances

    it’s mortgage interest, insurances, daft, accountant, boiler services etc etc.

    the LPT was agreed as a deductible with Noonan in 2012, and then never implemented. That’s the biggest non-deductible.

    we’ve a lot of kitchen whites across all rentals, usually 10-15yr lifecycles, so there’s always something like a washing machine that needs replacing and it’s never a surprise.

    the only surprises are with things like the current storms - damage to roofs is expensive. boilers are €2k, sheds are €1k and so on - those are surprises, but you can factor them in on about a 15yr lifecycle.

    Post edited by sk8board on


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,548 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    For equities you need to have cash to invest. With property you can leverage it relatively inexpensively. I have two properties one in a small town the other is an old farmhouse I did up. It was derelict before I started. I did it up between 2015-2o17 before building prices went crazy. Yield on original investment is just over 15% at present. Capital appreciation on the one in the small town is 40%+ at present. The farm house is in a farm yard so is not saleable.

    Investing in anything is about going in at the right time of the cycle. Property is probably a poor investment at present. But it has it advantages and disadvantages just like equities or any other investment.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    Plenty of people recon trying to time the market is pointless. I remember in 2013 people lamenting that there was no value in the property market any longer. I remember when we bought our place in 2016 people saying we bought in at the peak. There are lots of mini cycles but if you're looking for long term investment what happens in a given quarter or year or even 5 years matters little.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    It does matter if the goal posts are moved several times a year. Thats no environment to be making an investment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    I speaking more general about the idea that investment is all about timing the market. I'd argue that when it comes to regulation, timing is also not super relevant as regulations are only marching one direction and apply to all landlords regardless of when you got in.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭sk8board


    Considering 66% of all LL’s (120k from 165k) who came into the market accidentally, it’s unlikely any of them did it for strictly investment reasons, certainly not if you consider the risk associated with one rental, versus multiple.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    Didnt say they did.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,514 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Life cycle should be tied to depreciation, that’s allowed over 8 years. So 12.5% a year for appliances etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    A commercial property in rathfarnham I was interested in sold for 236 k yesterday, that's 253700 including stamp duty ,256 k when solicitor and registration fees paid

    Rent is 14 k and only informal tenancy ,that's 5.5% yield, that's a poor return in my opinion ,I've 4.75% on my hibernia REIT

    Auction receivership sale yesterday, reserve was 145 k,I didn't bid or even register in the end


    Very high prices at bidx1.com Auction yesterday



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    People who claimed that buying in 2013 were one of three types


    1. Those who believed Ireland was heading for Greek status economically


    2. Permabear cranks like found at the property pin site


    3. People who didn't understand anything about economics, yields in 2013 were terrific as rent was well above 2010 trough and supply low



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,548 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves



    Person buying it is probably buying it through a company structure. Assuming that they put up 20% and they can borrow 200k the repayments over 20 years is 14K/year. An informal tenancy while risky also means they can up rent on tenant. An informal tenancy also means tenant can be given notice if buyer wants the premises himself.

    On the short term buyers would need to top up the mortgage repayments by 2k/ months. At the end of 20 years you own the premises and the yield is all income. Adding 2% inflation in yield and property value would mean property would be worth nearly 300k and yield would be 20k/year.

    Lots of companies have cash swirling in bank accounts which are effected by negative interest rates, investments lime that may be tempting

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭jo187




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,046 ✭✭✭OU812


    Admittedly, I haven’t read the whole thread (going to do so now), but genuinely need to know why you as a tenant think your landlord should be empathetic to your situation?

    It’s a business transaction that’s very much driven by the quality of the product and the market.

    Would you expect your utilities company or your supermarket to be empathetic to your situation? You’re not expecting them to give you a cheaper price for their product, so why should a landlord?



  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭jo187


    You just think people could be decent especially after such a hard few years. There put the rent up just before the law changed.

    With Food you could go somewhere cheaper or go with out for a bit or reach out to soup kitchens etc.

    Electricity you could switch to pay as you go and top up when you can. Or go without plenty of people having to choose between food or heat.

    We all know the housing situation at the moment. There no where cheaper places.

    They have our balls in a vice. They have the government protecting them. Sherry Fitzgerald bragging in ads about record breaking profits.

    I can't go without accommodation for a month then come back.

    What do you suggest I do?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,377 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    When I was renting I couldn't afford my preferred area so moved further out to somewhere cheaper. I wanted to live in central Dublin but ended up living in Maynooth and then Naas. Not ideal but I survived. Friends ended up living in places like Portlaoise, Kildare Town, Kinnegad, Navan and for the unluckiest Edenderry. It was none of their first choice but we played the hand we were dealt.



  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭jo187


    I don't know those people situations but know my partner and I couldn't make that work due to our shift patterns.

    It's great let's push people out from there jobs and lives instead of trying to help.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,377 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    I had crap shift patterns at the time aswell. You do what you have to do



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    You may need to help yourself by looking at relocating your place of employment along with accommodation. It’s a crap situation, but you can’t rely on other people to provide a home where you want to live.



  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭jo187


    Love this attitude. I worked all my life . I moved to Dublin for opportunities in this field. My other half won't get the job she doing outside dublin.

    I don't expect to be given anything. But as a culture and society how you can defend two low wage workers not being afford to live in one bed app near to where they work is bizarre to me.

    We looked into all these options I not hear looking for advise. I wanted to vent and see the defense of LL. They been some valid points but sad see people happy for lives to be destroyed to keep the high rents going and keep rasing them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    You seem all over the place tbh, in some posts you're coming across as destitute without the ability to even keep the lights on, food stocked and heating running but you don't mention anything about HAP. There are actual charities and government payments out there to support people, but I'd hazard a guess you don't actually meeting the thresholds.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭CuriosityKilledtheCat


    As an accidental landlord, I can tell you the figures really don't add up for people like me.

    I have tenants in my house at below market rent. I agreed to sell the house to them in September of last year but they have not yet secured a mortgage - although it looks like they finally be successful with a Rebuilding Ireland home loan. They have a meeting with the local council on Friday.

    Between tax, maintenance, insurance etc. the house is costing me an average of €350/month on top of the rent. I have stood by my agreement of September 2020 even though the property has increased in value by at least €35k. I am lucky enough to be in a position to be able to afford to back up the mortgage and pay additional costs - a lot of landlords are not. I have set a target of 1st Feb for my tenants to have deposit paid and contracts signed, otherwise, I will be serving a Rent Review notice. I will also be withdrawing from the agreement to sell the house because, if I am getting market rent, it will not cost me as much to hold the house. Either way I am not too bothered, I just don't really want to be a landlord.

    Renting houses on a professional basis is a business like any other. People invest in stock and expect to make a profit.

    The government rely on the private sector to house people, this should not be the case. Local authorities have massive landbanks around the country and could essentially be the largest construction company in the country but there is no joined up thinking.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,978 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    Like @Pawwed Rig and @Dav010 said above, I had to move around to make ends meet. Ended up moving to England. Not living where I'd like to be but I make what I can, out of what I have. That's just life. I pay my landlord every month, I'm happy to make their house my home, been here a long time, and hopefully long time to come, but I accept that they own it, and could take it back if they wish. That's the deal, I agree to it, so do they.

    I lost my job a couple of years ago, my first thought was not to ask the landlords to change their life around to suit me, I just took a lower paid job and did more hours, until I could sort myself out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    ‘Twas ever thus. It is undeniably more expensive to live in a city, Dublin has always been more expensive than outside it. But if you can’t afford to live there, then you have little choice but to move to a lower cost location, always been that way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,009 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    After reading this op I emailed HR and cancelled my pay rise



  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭jo187


    Yes that the problem I'm only a little over the limit. I not sure when those limits were set, maybe a couple of years ago? We can all agree that the cost of everything has gone since then.

    The renters were let down last budget no help at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 994 ✭✭✭rightmove


    Best thing the Government could have done was leave the relationship between LL and renter alone. Every intervention (sold to the public as being on the side of the renter) has made things worse for both renter and LL. LLs have left the market and as a LL and renter simultaneously I understood how much of a pigs ear they were making of it. I am no longer a renter or a LL and only for the gov I might still be both.

    Honestly in this debate what is good for one side is usually it turns out bad for both.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    Based on the Dublin limits you're household with two people is at or above the average industrial wage. You're not well off but are better off than a lot of people, if the state deemed you had sufficient means not to need support, I'm not sure why you'd expect a handout from your landlord?



  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭jo187


    Yes when was those limits? Set? Do you not agree the cost of everything gone up?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,046 ✭✭✭OU812



    OK, this is gonna sound harsh, but you're blaming other people for your inability to maximise your potential.

    When I (we) first went to buy a house, firstly, we stayed at home until we had the deposit together for a house. Didn't smoke, had one cinema trip & one pub night out a month, no extras, save everything. We got mortgage approval & kept getting outbid constantly on houses. The banks (rightly) wouldn't loan us any more money.

    We ended up moving to the far side of Drogheda from Dublin. We both worked in Dublin City. Moving to Drogheda meant we had the added expense of a monthly train ticket to get to & from work, the times were lousy meaning we would arrive about 40 mins early & leave about five minutes before official quitting time, just so our working hours lined up (also had to stand the entire way both directions).

    This added train ticket cost would have more than covered a higher mortgage payment, pain in the ass but that's the situation we were in.

    Over the three years we lived there, we both unskilled & earned more money, this allowed us to put a bid on a run down ex rental house that frankly the previous tenants just didn't care about. Holes in walls, doors, an Jesus, the smell... But it was all we could afford.

    Spent the next couple of years fixing it up & making it comfortable. Kept studying, kept ups killing, kept asking for more money (& getting it), sometimes this involved moving jobs, but we were back in Dublin

    Then sold it & are now in frankly the biggest & nicest house I've ever lived in. Bigger than our parents houses, way bigger than our old houses. Four large bedrooms, multiple bathrooms, lovely gardens, all mod cons.

    We're still upskilling. We want more.

    Nobody's gonna give you anything. Nobody's gonna come and tell you they're here to help. It's just you.

    Improve yourself, improve your circumstances, start upskilling, find a niche & make it yours. I don't have a traditional school exam to my name, no inter/junior or leaving. School was very much not for me, but I recognised a couple of years later that I'd have to get my ass in gear if I was going to make serious money (or even decent money). Stop bitching online & get hungry, you can do it. Reduce your expenses by moving somewhere cheaper, maybe move job to the same area & then study your ass off in an industry that's in demand.

    I have friends in RPA that after six months of study & then another six to eight months of experience are on €50k+ a year, I've one friend who works four days a week as a contractor at €1,250 a day (again automation but with years of experience in a pretty niche market). He doesn't have any traditional school exams either.

    If us load of asses can do it, anyone can.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭jo187


    Well done on that. Of course you had a big advantage of being able to live at home which was a help to you.

    I happy enough in my job and my work is important, I not sure moving into another field is possible, I haven't even looked into it or what area or anything like that. I also don't smoke, drink etc



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