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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    Theory is coming from Nick Foster's spate of recent tweets, I would imagine. He seems to be hinting that Jules and her daughter(s) were involved in the cover up or knew Bailey did it and he bullied or threatened them into silence. It seems he's saying that it was one of them who was given the watch that was apparently taken from Sophie's wrist.

    Appears to be a load of b*llocks to be honest, but open to be proven wrong. Firstly, why would a murderer gift an item that he stole from his victims body to his lover or lovers daughter, and them knowing were it came from.

    Secondly, is it likely that a person who has gotten away with a horrific crime for 25 years would be stupid enough to confess/confide in a woman he wasn't married to and that woman's daughters. Would you really be that sure that those people were going to keep your terrible, dark secret.

    I could be understating Bailey's ability to threaten, but any of those women could have put him away for life by going to the police. Why would they instead choose to live a life of fear for two and a half decades.



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    Yes, I understand some killers or serial killers would take items from their victims. It was the gifting the items to his lover or lovers daughter and them knowing were it came from that I find farfetched.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭tibruit


    Has Foster actually said he believes the killer gave the watch to someone?



  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭PolicemanFox


    Don't know when he was born. Bailey tweeted about his history, I believe one of his restaurants was "The Basil Bush" a name that appeals to foxy types like me.

    Watch the French doc by the supercool Karl Zero Absolu. It's on Youtube. Sheridan got a lot of his interviews from it for Murder in the Cottage docu series. I don't remember how the dog died but he didn't have it the night of the 22nd.

    Don't know if he spoke other languages. Seems unlikely but maybe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    That doc is ok if you understand French, but the translation of the subtitles is dire.

    I thought he was just minding the dog for a while.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭flopisit


    Yeah, I would agree.

    If the theory is that Bailey (if he is the killer) took a watch and gave it as a present to Jules or one of the daughters.... I would not be surprised.

    If he told them where it came from? I'm with you. I can't see them accepting that.

    The only scenario I can imagine is one in which he tells Jules, "This woman came at me with a hatchet, I had to defend myself, I had no choice" then I can possibly see her taking his side. She has, of course, a long history of taking his side and forgiving him his misdeeds when not many other women would... In that case I can see him giving her a watch to hide. (All wild speculation of course.)

    Another possible scenario (if he is the killer): Bailey tells her he went out for a walk and came across a watch on the ground which he picked up. Then he saw the corpse. He took the watch because his fingerprints are on it and he is an innocent man who has inadvertently stumbled onto a crime scene. "I need you to hide this watch for me" (Again wild speculation).



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    It's so odd we know previous little about his life before Ireland. His AGS file his past infringements. The extent of his injuries at the time of the murder. The dead dog. It's also so bizarre and he lives right next door. Surely all of this should be in the AGS reports clear as day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭PolicemanFox


    Yes, unfortunately so and it's 10 years old and has a lot of errors. Being French it's quite biased against Bailey. But it's the only place I have found with interviews with lots of key people, James Camier, Father Denis Cashman, Leo Bolger, Alfie Lyons, Caroline Manguez, Daniel Toscan du Plantier etc.

    Maybe it's a good excuse to brush up school French, no?



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭flopisit


    Boom! Boom!

    People are asking about the languages because Bailey insinuated that Foster is some kind of secret agent. An "our man in Havana Graham Greene" type.

    Maybe they think Alfie is a 007 too! Just a few days ago, someone was insinuating Alfie murdered his previous family.... and the dog too apparently.



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-the-pat-kenny-show/could-we-be-approaching-arrests-in-the-sophie-toscan-du-plantier-case


    About 3 mins is a bit about the watch, he talks about a person wanting to know when exactly the watch was taken from Sophie's wrist (before or after the murder) and that the person knew the colour of the watch etc. So he's either talking about someone who was in possession of the watch, or Sophies family. I don't see how anyone else could know about the watch.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    "Maybe it's a good excuse to brush up school French, no?"


    Too late for that for me now, I'm afraid.

    I responded to an earlier post of yours and asked a few questions, but it may have gotten lost in the Soul writer Glossie Box spat.

    You said Alfie had a row with Finbarr Hellen about fencing.

    Was this row anything to do with the fence erected where Sophie parked her car, which by the way, was on Richardson's land?

    Or was it to do with the fencing and new gate down at the bottom of Sophie's lawn, do you know?

    (both of which were removed in later photos of the area)



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭flopisit


    But it could easily be someone who was given a watch shortly after the murder and only now is starting to wonder where the watch came from...

    Or someone who saw the body had a watch on the wrist and then saw crime scene photos in which there was no watch.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Must be the photographer took it,

    Ian's brother David.



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭flopisit


    I think what's happening with the Nick Foster thing is people who support Bailey are claiming Foster said things he didn't say.

    For instance, there was a big deal made out of Foster saying Bailey confessed to a crime of passion. Jim SHeridan even played a tape on the Blindboy podcast triumphantly claiming he had disproved something. Bailey's supporters rejoiced and said Nick FOster lied!!

    Then, I read Nick FOster's book and came to the relevant part. Foster interviews Bailey over the phone while a crew films Bailey in Ireland. Foster says he got a call after the interview from one of the crew - Sheridan's crew - who were filming Bailey and the crew member told him Bailey continued talking after the cameras were off and was talking about a crime of passion. Then Foster starts musing about the possibility of the murder being a crime of passion. At no point does he claim in the book that Bailey confessed anything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭DontHitTheDitch


    If they moved the body just over the ditch from the lane and concealed it, then threw a few buckets of water over the scene of the fatal attack they would have had plenty of time to make it go away before anyone raised the alarm that Sophie was missing. No attempt was made whatsoever.



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    That's what I'm saying, it sounds as though he's talking about someone who has been given the watch.

    From what he says about the person wanting to know when the watch was taken, I don't think the person he's talking about knew the body had a watch on it and then saw photos without it. It sounds to me that it's either someone who was gifted the watch, or someone from Sophies life (perhaps family) that knew she had that watch. If he's hinting that the garda purposefully didn't solve the crime because of embarrassment that a watch went missing from the body then that's incredibly farfetched.

    He talks about sending the person a letter confirming to them that the watch was taken at the time of the murder rather than after sophie's body was discovered. How he knows that I don't know and it would seem like guesswork to me, I'm not sure how he could confirm the watch wasn't on her body at the time Sophie was discovered. If he's working off of crime scene photos, the watch could have easily been taken by someone before the photos were taken, rather than at the time of the murder by her murderer. It's also in doubt whether the watch was ever even taken, a poster on twitter has said the watch is visible in crime scene photos in the house.

    I would also doubt that her family are directing all questions about the murder to Nick Foster, but who knows.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    Given what we know about the nature of their relationship it seems likely that Thomas could well have felt intimidated, threatened or downright terrified enough to keep that deep,dark secret for all this time and take it with her to the grave.



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    But he does state that in the book, he clearly states that Bailey said "I did it, I killed sophie..." when on the tape he clearly doesn't say that. It's Bailey theorising that if the French police are convinced he was the murderer AND that he previously knew Sophie, why don't they charge him with a crime of passion.

    It's a pretty blatant difference in what Foster wrote and what Bailey said, I don't see how anybody could see that differently.

    People who think Nick Foster didn't exaggerate that part are basically accusing Jim Sheridan of lying when he played the tape on Blindboy's podcast.

    Why would Sheridan call out Foster if Foster didn't make that part up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    “was floating the idea with Colm, with the cameras unfortunately switched off, that he could say to the French that, yes, he did it, he killed Sophie, but it was a crime of passion. “

    Exact quote from the book.

    I don't see how this could be seen as anything other than a blatant exaggeration of what was actually said. People can argue that this quote was passed on to Foster from another source rather than said to him directly, but then should Foster really be writing unconfirmed second hand info into his book reported as fact, and what does that say about his handling of other information.



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    Curious that Foster often challenges Bailey and Jim Sheridan to a TV debate, is his goal to solve the crime or to become famous and piggyback off of other peoples fame. Why does something have to be done on TV, why publicly at all if your goal is to actually bring peace and comfort to a heartbroken and mourning family.

    Sheridan is a world renowned oscar nominated movie director, why would he arsed to do a live TV debate with a little known author with a pendant for joining the dots in a borderline fantasist way. There's only one person who would benefit from that, it's not Sheridan and it's certainly not Sophie's family. Who Foster claims to care so much for.

    In his latest interview with Neil Prendeville, Neil asks Nick if it's the bravery of the people of West Cork that will eventually solve the crime. Nick responds by practically saying actually it will be my info.

    The man comes across as desperate for fame and desperate for book sales IMO.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭crackcrack30


    I don't tweet... I read

    Your mind doesn't stretch too far if you link everything back to only bailey..

    Sophie knew her killer/s..... I wouldn't open a rural door to anyone without asking who was there..would you?..

    If someone traveled a long way for sex I think they would have got it, consent or not..

    Rape is an act of violence, and this person obviously had a violent streak...

    No this was a dispute... pent up anger, rage & loss of control .........with no mind-state for scene clean-up.

    She was dressed and had eaten .... this was a morning killing.

    There's a massive blind spot in the mirror when looking back on this case....



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭tibruit


    Foster`s biggest problem is that he is thinking out loud in the media and as far as I can see some people are attributing things to him that he hasn`t said at all and then criticizing him for saying them. He should shut up and write his book and people can then decide if he has something worthwhile to reveal or not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    She was interviewed by police by herself on a couple of occasions I think, at least one after being arrested. If she really knew Ian did it and was terrified of the consequences if she informed the police, she could have put Ian behind bars for life and never had to have seen or dealt with him again for the rest of her life. I'm pretty sure the cops even told her during questioning that they had Ian by the balls and that he had maybe even confessed, so if she really was aware that he did it you'd imagine she would have broke there and then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    But it's not just thinking out loud is it, he's reporting things as fact that he couldn't possibly know are facts. It's dangerous, irresponsible and terrible journalist ethics.

    For example, he tweeted:

    "The murder of #sophietoscanduplantier was, I believe, precipitated by an argument over a bottle of wine. Sophie's assailant knocked on her door in the early hours of 23/12/96. She opened it, and he saw a bottle in her porch. He picked it up, and refused to give it back."

    "#sophietoscanduplantier called out "Monsieur, Monsieur!" after the man. This is not a way a French person would address a prowler or indeed a 'hitman'. It rather suggests Sophie knew her attacker. She was angry with the man for taking the bottle. He then struck her with it."

    In these two tweets alone he is stating as fact that Sophie's murderer took a bottle of wine from her porch when she opened the door and beat her with it after she followed him, how could he possibly know this as fact unless the murderer told him or he witnessed it himself. He also states as fact that Sophie called out "Monsieur!" to her murderer, again he couldn't possibly know this as fact unless he was there on the night or the murderer or witness to the murder told him.

    If a source told him this info, Foster should state clearly that a witness or source said this happened. Rather than him stating it as fact that this is what happened that night.

    What he is doing is crossing the line from factual reporting into fantasist stuff. He is confusing his role as a journalist/author with a joining the dots armchair detective IMO. If a poster in here put those tweets as a comment they would be quite rightly called out and asked how the F*ck could you possibly know that.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Agree with most of this.

    Sophie wasn't dressed tho, except in nightwear and boots.

    We don't know if sex was attempted, because the pathology report was rather vague on this, but swabs were taken for semen etc and nothing showed up.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Exactly. This is exactly what he's doing, and the reason people are rightly getting so annoyed by him.

    Not only that, but he drops one fantasy theory for the next one. There was a notable silence when prendeville asked him about the wine and watch theories, followed by a half assed backtrack about the wine, like he suddenly remembered it was significant or something.

    Irish media needs to stop giving him airtime. It's an embarrassment to this country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    The Bantry guard confession has not gone away




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Interesting.

    They fail to mention that a friend of the nurses family became very vocal on social media about the confession, and told numerous people, which is how this all started up again in the summer.

    Also, he didn't retire in 94, there's a photo of all the bantry gardai in 95 with him in it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    And what's all this about passing this "information" to Sophie's family and not to the Gardaí?

    Is he hoping the French will press for extradition again after Macron's visit?

    Was Macron promised a case review and if any new evidence should come to light extradition would be considered?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Wasn't Finbarr Hellen already in the area by noon, and approached the crime scene when he noticed the Garda activity?

    If his visit with his son on the previous Saturday took them close enough to Sophie's house to be able to see her inside

    it's a fair bet his Monday morning visit would have taken the same route.



This discussion has been closed.
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