Is Ireland Racist?

Not in the least. In fact, a family member of mine teaches literacy classes to travellers.

However, I'm genuinely intrigued by the traveller who has excelled in international banking. I'd love to read about his back story and I'm interested in Bubbly's critique of the qualities that underpin his success.

Who has taught travellers?

Oh come on now Bubbly, you can be an impertinent little minx at the best of times..

I'm asking you tell me what qualities and behaviors youR traveller acquaintance possesses, that differentiates him from large swathes of his community. We've already established he is 'very unusual', no?

Got it. It must be his 'mathematical mind' then.

Well it truly is heartwarming to see members of our traveller community working hand in hand with our new Romanian community- a real success story!

These lads with their higher birth rates will be paying our pensions apparently according to some geniuses!!

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/dont-open-that-barrister-told-by-judge-to-stop-unrolling-chart-as-he-alleges-fraud-ring-during-compensation-case-41154097.html

Mr Hogan said that he would be calling evidence concerning the fraud ring of around 60 claims arising from 16 separate accidents.

Ms Stratton – who previously lived in England – confirmed to Mr Hogan that she had no knowledge of the existence of the fraud ring involving Romanian nationals and members of the Traveller community, as alleged by Mr Hogan.

So but, but, but the bankers basically?!

You live in America iirc? Gotta love lads living in a different continent telling us what's best for us- keep it coming.

Living in US? Yes?

Irish? Yes.

You must be very upset at all the threads on here about US focused topics on which Irish people are very vocal.

Thanks for the faux concern for paddy taxpayer so.

I'm in no way upset on American topics on boards ta and funnily enough I don't tell American taxpayers what's best for them either! Don't worry paddy taxpayer will keep shelling out for our traveller n roma for generations to come!

I do not know how I can explain this to you any more simply than I already have.

I am not looking at Lexico. I am not looking at CRER. I am not looking at the Wayback Machine, or any other site that claims to tell you what is in the Oxford English Dictionary. I am looking at the Oxford English Dictionary itself,, to which I have a subscription in connection with my work. The definition that I quoted is there. Here's a screenshot:

Do not tell me again that this definition is not in the OED without first consulting the OED yourself. If you don't have an online subscription, you can consult it in any good reference library. If you're not prepared to do that, then don't tell us what is and isn't in it; you don't know.

As for whether "there has been a push by some to update the definition recently", the meaning of words is constantly evolving and this is usually an organic development, not the result of any conscious push by anyone. The meaning of "racism" has evolved in line with our understanding of the meaning of "race", I have to tell you that the meaning of "race" has evolved a lot over a very long period/ It is primarily this, rather than "a push by some" which has driven shifts in the meaning of "racism".

"Racism" was originally supposed to be a neutral term; it meant the theory that distinctive human characteristics are determined by race - Black people are strong, Italians are passionate, Scandinavians are gloomy, Irish like to party, whatever. "Race" at this time could mean any group of people defined by descent - the O'Malleys, Cork people, the Irish, Europeans, White people were all "races". The more loaded term was "racialism"; belief in the superiority of one's own race because of its distinctive characteristics, leading to prejudice and antagonism towards people of other races. And, again, "race" here could be pretty much any group of people connected by descent. Thus Nazi attitudes to German Jews were universally seen as racialist, including by the Nazis themselves, even though German Jews were (obviously) German, and European, and White.

Over time "racism" and "racialism" came to mean the same thing, because the characteristics supposed to be determined by race were nearly always pejorative or negative ones. The OED definition reflects that merger of meanings.

We no longer think "race" refers to any group of related people; we only use it for groups of people that we consider to have common characteristics that we regard as significant. So, as pointed out earlier, we don't define races by eye colour, even though this is an inherited characteristic, but we do define races by skin colour even though, from a genetic point of view, it is no more profound a difference than eye colour. The only difference is in our attitudes; skin colour is important because we think it's important, and for no other reason. Similarly the differences between Jewish and Gentile Germans were important to the Nazis because, and only because, the Nazis decided they were important (even though a lot of the differences that mattered so much to the Nazis were illusory).

It should be noted that inherited characteristics are not the same as genetic characteristics. What we think of as defining race or ethnicity is mainly things like language, religion, culture, customs, etc; these are largely inherited but they are not genetic.

So, for a long time now, we have used "race" to identify groups of people who share inherited characteristics that we don't have, and that we choose to regard as important. That's the basis on which the Nazis could speak of German Jews as a distinct "race". And "racism" has a commensurate meaning.

Because "racism" is a pejorative term, people accused of being racists will generally try to disavow the idea. They sometimes try to do this by arguing that the group which they subject to prejudice, antagonism or discrimination is not a "race". This is the line mostly taken by modern antisemites, for example, in distinction to the Nazis, who wore the racist badge with pride. It's also a line often taken by islamophobes, etc. But being prejudiced against Jews or Muslims because of inherited characteristics like beliefs, characteristics, practices, culture, etc that [you believe] them to have is not fundamentally different from being prejudiced against Black people or Chinese people or whatever on the basis of what you think they have inherited. It's not the skin colour or the shape of the eye that drive anti-Black or anti-Chinese racism; it's the inherited cultural characteristics that are assumed to go with them. If any group is discriminated against by reference to a (supposed) set of inherited characteristics, that pretty much defines that group as a "race".

I don't know why everyone is wondering about the traveller who is a high flying financier, banker or whatever in financial services and what sets him apart.

The big thing is he must have completed some decent level of education and possibly some professional qualifications to get a start in the business.

After that to be really successful he just needs to be a rule breaker and unethical to some extent, which appears to be par for the course for a fair number of travellers, or at least most of the ones most of us know.

Note I did not say ALL, EVERYONE or anything of the sort.

Most very successful people in finance and in a fair few other areas in business would walk over you or sell their own family if need be.

Oh IMHO that very much applies to non travellers as well or perhaps people forget the messes bankers and financial whizzkids made around the world.

Now if they had said a traveller that was a doctor, consultant, scientist, engineer I would be way more impressed.