Covid cert and public pool and gym

Because the vaccine was only made available 12 months ago. It didn't exist 24 or 60 months ago.

That's not a choice, it's an ultimatum. If I said to you that you can live under house arrest or wear an electronic ankle bracelet, which would you choose?

I never asked for a study but continue to try and put words in my mouth.

Exactly, so why would disparage people who choose not to take a medical treatment when neither the vaccine or disease existed 12 months ago, and then when someone asks about the long term safety you screech that they should be excluded from society because you don't agree with their choices?

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Well, you can choose to see it as an ultimatum if you want, but it still your choice to decline. The problem is, you don't want to accept the consequences of your choice.

Its also still not discriminatory under the Equal Status Acts.

The only one screeching here is yourself.

Like I said, if you don't want to be vaccinated, fine. Suit yourself. But own your decision, and the consequences that come with it.

Nothing further to add.

The characterisation of people who are against cover certs, lockdowns, mandatory vaccinations and the vast erosion of personal liberty that entails - as, unpatriotic or not being a "team player", is really something that should be met head on. I completely reject the notion that being against getting injected with something against my will makes me a bad citizen.

Can we get this clear. Knowing someone else's vaccine status DOES NOT protect you. What protects YOU is choosing to have YOUR vaccine. Once you have had that, you are supposed to be protected & can go about your business without demanding the confidential health records of another person. If you don’t agree with that statement then you must question the efficacy of the vaccination strategy which means you are also forced to question the official narrative that you’ve been fed for the last 18 months

But those who would force this upon us are defending the indefensible all the while hiding behind a cloak of faux patriotism and safety.

I don't believe that liberty is an absolute value, I think that there are circumstances where it is necessary to override it. But we have to be very careful to reserve that for extreme cases. I do not regard an disease which has at least a 99.8% recovery rate as an extreme case. I cannot regard a crisis which has resulted in a small increase in risk sufficient to lock people up in their homes and to exclude a cohort of people from civic life for merely exercising their choice to bodily autonomy.

Just to be clear, vaccination in Ireland is not, nor has it ever been mandatory. Your right to decide whether you take the vaccine is absolute, so please stop stating otherwise.

Like most, I am completely indifferent as to whether you personally have taken a vaccine or have a cert. Like most, I am indifferent as to whether you suffer as a result of your decision, it is yours to make. But, like most I support the decision to deny entry to you to many indoor activities and aircraft. You see that as curtailing your liberties, but as most of these establishments are privately owned or public amenities with entry policies, there was never a time when everyone was entitled to entry.

My issue is not YOUR health per say, if you get sick and stay at home, I’d say good for you on your decision relating to vaccines, but as long as unvaxed like yourself provide a hugely disproportionate number of hospital/ICU admissions as a result of your choice, then it should come as no surprise that people are annoyed with you. I’d get used to it if I were you, it’s going to get worse.

You said 99.8% recover, was it not pointed out to you earlier that stats show 2% of those infected died? The issue here presently is not the death rate, that has not been an issue for some time. It is the volume of people infected at the same time, hospitalisations and the effect on treatments of people with other illnesses, effects on schools/workplaces and society in general.

It is a credit to the Irish people, though we have small concerns for ourselves dying/needing hospital treatments, we think more about what others dying/needing treatment and the effect our choices have on them. That is why vax rate is so high, that is why we accept restrictions even though we hate them. And that is why the opinion on the unvaxed is so strong.

Vaccinations are neither mandatory, (I was quoting you, so I wasn’t “looking” for a term), nor compulsory, please stop saying they are. If you don’t want a vaccine, you do not have to have one.

If hospitals were overwhelmed as you say, before Covid, surely you then understand the importance of avoiding further stress on hospitals? Again, this is not a new nor difficult concept to understand. If hospitals are at capacity, more patients suffering from Covid means someone cannot be treated.

Has anyone said Covid passes reduce transmissions? And no, I reject utterly the notion that restricting access of those not vaccinated will be detrimental to society. If they cannot see why vaccination is important, if they continue to provide a hugely disproportionate number of hospitalisations/ICU admissions, I am certain society can do without their attendance inside buildings other than their own.

I don’t want to get bogged down in semantics, it is wrong to say something is compulsory or required by law, which it clearly is not. There is absolutely no legal requirement for you to have a vaccine if you do not want one, not through the front door, not through the back. So please, stop saying there is, claiming there is when no such law exists just makes you look foolish.

The purpose of the cert is to prevent people such as yourself from going into settings where the risk of you becoming infected is higher. In the hope that you are less likely to become ill and need hospitalisation. People who are vaccinated are less likely to become seriously ill, studies also suggest that vaccinated people are less likely to spread the virus as levels of nasal virus drop faster than those of unvaccinated infected people.

As I said to you earlier, few people care if you personally get sick, hopefully it wouldn’t be too serious, hopefully you would stay at home. But when 7% of the population accounts for 62% of ICU admissions, that becomes a problem for all those other people who need those beds unrelated to Covid illness.

Firstly, there is no medical contraindication to vaccination.

The purpose of the Covid certificate is that it is document confirming the vaccination status of the recipient.

The 62% referred to relates to the number of people in ICU from April 1st to November 31st, not today. If you google, you will find the data. And the figures must be considered in context, a very tiny percentage of the population need ICU beds at any one time, surely you can understand that of those people who need them, if 62% are unvaxed Covid cases from a group that accounts for 7% of the population, that is a cause for concern.

What happens if a super variant happened anyway in say a place where there is low vaccination rates, like say a southern African country, and while we waited for that variant, lots of people died here either directly from Covid, or indirectly because they were unable to access treatment for other illnesses, and we hadn't vaccinated because we were worried about the super variant? Ridiculous, I know.