Correct procedure to avoid being undertaken when you get a blowout in this scenario

Jeremy Sproket · 07-12-2021 10:11pm #1

Imagine you are driving on a 3-lane stretch of motorway (anywhere, any jurisdiction) but we'll use left hand driving for this situation.

You are driving along and you come up to a middle lane hogger, you correctly overtake the middle lane hogger using the outside lane. During this manoeuvre, you get a blow out.

The correct procedure during a blowout is to firmly grip the wheel and guide the car to the hard shoulder ... but how can you possibly do that when the majority of the other vehicles will be undertaking the lane hogger instead of overtaking legally. (I know that the lane hogger is in the wrong but undertaking only compounds the issue).

What would you do if you found yourself in this situation being undertaken after a blowout?

Speedline · 07-12-2021 10:58pm

That scenario could occur if you were simply driving in lane 3 anyway.

I guess you put on your hazard lights and wait for a gap.

Del2005 · 07-12-2021 11:34pm

The majority of the other vehicles are following the middle lane hogger like sheep. Very few vehicles pass on the left when traffic is moving fast, as most are sitting in the middle lane.

But as Speedline said you'd have the same problem having a blow out in the 3rd lane in traffic, you still need to safely navigate across 3 lanes of traffic and there's no safe way to do that when you don't have full control of your vehicle after loosing a tyre.

Wishbone Ash · 08-12-2021 7:28am

Many motorways in the UK do not have a hard shoulder.

mikeecho · 08-12-2021 11:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288464#Comment_118288464

Lots of the 'A' roads don't have hard shoulders either.

Buffman · 08-12-2021 12:33pm

'What would you do if you found yourself in this situation being undertaken after a blowout?'

Being undertaken is irrelevant in this situation, you have to assume you'll be undertaken anyway due to the loss of speed from a blowout.

Hazards on and try to safely get to the hard shoulder. If there's no hard shoulder, or the vehicle is disabled, get over as far as you can and get yourself out and somewhere safe (Even on the hard shoulder, don't stay in the car). If you're blocking a motorway driving lane and causing an obstruction, call 999 and hope they get there before there's a smash.

seamus · 08-12-2021 12:41pm

Priority here is getting yourself as far off the road as you can. If you blowout in lane 3 you let the vehicle slow down, but you keep driving on that flat until you can move lanes and get off the motorway. Destroying your rim and having to fork out for a new one is better than coming to a stop in lane 3.

Spook_ie · 08-12-2021 1:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058221781/correct-procedure-to-avoid-being-undertaken-when-you-get-a-blowout-in-this-scenario

Worse situation, which actually happened to me last year.

Try driving on the motorway, heading north just after the airport turn off and lose all forward drive due to an autobox fault. No option but hazard flashers and coast, continually slowing ( because of no drive ) until one of the HGVs I had overtaken had his wits on him and slowed enough for me to coast left to the hard shoulder.

If they hadn't left a gap I'd have been left with leaving the vehicle in a live lane and trying to shepard people onto the hard shoulder

antodeco · 08-12-2021 2:17pm

Exact scenario happened me a few years ago, except I had to cross 5anes basically. It was just after/before Ballymun where there are 2 rejoining lanes to the motorway, so 5 lanes. I was in the very right overtaking lane.

Rear right had a blowout. No slamming on the breaks or anything. I just took my foot off the accelerator, light press on the breaks to light up the lights, hazards on, and pretty much straight across to the hard shoulder. There wasn't a huge amount of traffic, but still navigated my way across. I think the flying bits of rubber helped people realise though!

Wishbone Ash · 08-12-2021 5:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289479#Comment_118289479

Yes, but the OP was referring to being in lane 3 of a motorway. I've never been on a A road with 3 lanes.

Gregor Samsa · 09-12-2021 11:31am

I had an engine blow up (sudden loss of oil caused the pistons to seize and one blew a hole in the engine block) while overtaking on a busy motorway one morning. It wasn't 3 lanes but that hardly mattered - sudden and catastrophic loss of power with a car right on my tail and having to coast across traffic on the left, that was now overtaking me, into the hard shoulder.

Also had a car suddenly go into limp mode while overtaking on the outside lane of a 5 lane section of the M1 (heading north, just before the Airport exit), at night in the rain. Loss of speed wasn't as dramatic, but there was a lot of traffic to contend with in poor visibility without optimal power. I can't remember if I went to the hard should that time or took the exit, but I had to get out of where I was.

You just do your best to get over to the hard shoulder. If you're lucky, you get there. If you're not, well, that's when crashes happen. I guess if there was a big enough accessible central reservation on your right, you could safely pull into that. But there wasn't in either of my situations.

Jeremy Sproket · 10-12-2021 6:33pm

Whilst the middle lane hogger is in the wrong, the people overtaking him / her on the left are compounding the issue.

Overtaking on the left is dangerous driving and is the reason which makes the blow out more dangerous. The people overtaking on the left need to be punished the same as the middle lane hogger.

Middle lane hogging would drop drastically is people didn't undertakake as undertaking normalises lane hogging.

If you have to overtake on the left or you choose to do it, you and you alone (along with the lane hogger) should accept all that happens as a result, ie, if you smash into the blow out car.

km991148 · 10-12-2021 6:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289839#Comment_118289839

even reading the end of that sentence "coming to a stop in lane 3" gives me shivers..

TherapyBoy · 10-12-2021 6:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118302508#Comment_118302508

There’s a very easy & simple way to stop all overtaking-on-the-left from happening - prosecute poor lane discipline.

If everyone drives in the lane they are supposed to, overtaking-on-the-left behaviour drops close to zero. Kill two birds with one stone.

Speedline · 10-12-2021 6:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118302508#Comment_118302508

It is up to the person changing lanes to look out. A driver could 'let' another driver change lanes out of courtesy but ultimately any blame in the event of a collision falls on the driver changing lanes.

Jeremy Sproket · 10-12-2021 9:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118302583#Comment_118302583

It's not a courtesy, you're obliged to yield to your right.

Why is overtaking on the eft (outside of specific circumstances) illegal then?

I can understand overtaking lane hoggers on the left (albeit still illegal) but someone in distress with hazards on ?? You should NEVER overtake on the left.

Even people who are "exempt" from the RTA, emergency services, gardaí, fire etc show appalling lane discipline here. I've seen them lane hogging on near empty motorways when clearly not in pursuit as they're often below the speed limit when doing so. If our drivers (who are apparently more qualified than us) can't get it right, what hope do we have of enforcement? Surely deviation from the rules should should only be allow when required and not "jUsT bEcAuSe I sAiD sO".

Jeremy Sproket · 16-12-2021 9:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118303109#Comment_118303109

That's what I thought.

The cars doing the "undertaking" in this situation are 100% in the wrong (aside from the lane hogger of course).

Besides, there are several situations where a person could be undertaken when they are NOT in the wrong and the person doing the undertaking is entirely at fault.

https://goo.gl/maps/f5qTd3fPBvmbAucx7

Take this road for example, the R132. Drivers on the R132 road (lets' call them driver A) have priority over those joining from the R127 (driver B), where there is a HUGE unmissable Yield Sign. If driver A on the R132 wants to move over left, and all the driver Bs are speeding and undertaking, then A has 2 choices, wait for a gap (hold up traffic behind them) or break the speed limit (which is extremely dangerous) given it's a shared space with cyclists.

Donald Trump · 16-12-2021 10:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118333692#Comment_118333692

If A wants to move over into the "left lane" there he'd want to check the oul' unbroken white line..................

Jeremy Sproket · 17-12-2021 5:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118333793#Comment_118333793

Who said (or implied) that I was going to cross the continuous line and not wait for it to break?

I await your reply.

Jeremy Sproket · 17-12-2021 5:54pm

No one has answered my question yet or acknowledged that the undertaker IS in the wrong and in some circumstances the person being undertaken is simply not the one at fault.

The example I have given from the R132 is one such example.

Donald Trump · 17-12-2021 6:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118338965#Comment_118338965

You did. You're complaining about not being able to move in the "left lane" when you actually aren't allowed to there. It's a 60k zone. For both lanes. If you can't manage to move into the left lane there (after you are allowed to do so) then you're not going to be able to do it anywhere and shouldn't be driving. There would be relatively few drivers who would need to move to the left lane there and if they do, they have quite a distance in which to do it. You have indicators and mirrors. The former is just to alert other users of your intentions. They don't give you a right to do something.

The continuous white line there is to stop eejits in the "right lane" from veering straight across the paths of the others who have just joined from the other road. By the time the line breaks, you have a nice straight bit behind you for both lanes and should be able to see what is coming.

Jeremy Sproket · 17-12-2021 6:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118339240#Comment_118339240

Please quote the part where I said I would cross the white line.

The drivers in the leftmost lane are supposed to yield to the drivers moving across from the right lane, what else do you think the yield sign is for?

The statute says you're not allowed to overtake on the left unless the traffic you are overtaking is in a queue and you are proceeding straight ahead or in very slow moving traffic, 60 km/h is not slow.

You are also not supposed to overtake a vehicle on the left when that vehicle is indicating left according to the statute.

How do you expect me to enter the left lane on my bicycle ?

I await your reply.

17-12-2021 6:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118338977#Comment_118338977

There is no undertaking in the piece of road pictured. You must stay in lane.

Therefore the drivers in the left are not undertaking.

Jeremy Sproket · 17-12-2021 6:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118339298#Comment_118339298

The line breaks metres after the junction.

I await both of your replies.

17-12-2021 6:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118339330#Comment_118339330

I know. I have driven it many times.

There is no undertaking while the continuous white line is there, you must stay in lane.

if you are undertaken when the broken white line is there, it is your fault, get into the left lane.

Donald Trump · 17-12-2021 6:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118339280#Comment_118339280

The yield sign there is to warn the people coming from Lusk village direction to take care because some eejits don't know what a continuous white line means, and are liable to cut across them.

Jeremy Sproket · 17-12-2021 7:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118339348#Comment_118339348

Q1: How is it my fault when I am already driving at the speed limit?

Q2: How do you expect me to get across when I'm on my bike? The car drivers should yield to the cyclist who wants to enter the left lane.

Donald Trump · 17-12-2021 7:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118339431#Comment_118339431

On your bicycle is a different matter. If I was you, what I would do there is actually slow down at the junction (or even stop at the little island bit) until you got a clear spot to move in to the left.

If you want to be safe, turn left at the junction towards Lusk, then cross that road and come back to the junction from that direction so you are already in the lane. It might take 2 minutes more but would be worth not getting squashed over.

Jeremy Sproket · 17-12-2021 7:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118339459#Comment_118339459

So you see no issue with the drivers ignoring the yield sign?

Why should I have to do that?

I have right of way and the drivers MUST slow down to allow me in front. Then they can overtake if they wish.

There seems to be a toxic cohort of rule braking and speed apologists on here.

blade1 · 17-12-2021 7:12pm

The biggest problem here may not be you and your blowout but all the other f*ckwits that may not give you an inch even if they know you're in distress.

17-12-2021 7:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118339431#Comment_118339431

So now you're on a bike?

make up your mind

Donald Trump · 17-12-2021 7:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118339474#Comment_118339474

The thread was about a blowout of a tyre when in the "overtaking lane" on a multilane road. At the end of your arguments you have dropped in now that you are on a pushbike. Drivers should be cognisant and considerate of you but it doesn't give you the right to veer across in front of them. Even if it did, it would be fundamentally idiotic to do it because in the event of a collision you are going to be the one coming off the worst.

Technically speaking you have to obey the continuous white line even if you are on a bike. I'd rather get there alive one minute later and be alive than get there early in a box. Which is why I made two simple suggestions. You can continue to veer across in front of traffic to prove a point if you like. There have been people killed at that junction multiple times in the past.

DarkJager21 · 17-12-2021 7:31pm

Turn on the hazard lights - this instantly tells traffic you are serious about doing whatever you want and you can safely drift across the 2 lanes to the safety of the hard shoulder.

Jeremy Sproket · 17-12-2021 8:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118339549#Comment_118339549

I'm trying to demonstrate that the person being undertaken is not necessarily at fault.

Threads can change course.

The person undertaking a person with a blowout is 100% in the wrong.

The person ignoring the yield sign on the R132 is 100% in the wrong.

Jeremy Sproket · 17-12-2021 8:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118339550#Comment_118339550

Again, where did I say I wanted to cross the continuous line? Please quote me.

The drivers should NOT undertake after the line breaks. I might come off worse, but they are in the wrong and will have to pay for damage to my car or bicycle and any other injuries I might incur.

17-12-2021 8:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118339821#Comment_118339821

There is a continuous white line. There is no changing lanes. There is no undertaking.

When the line breaks, then you move into the left lane, whether you're driving or cycling.

And, do you expect the drivers in the left hand lane to go slower then you on a bike?

standardg60 · 17-12-2021 8:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118339549#Comment_118339549

He'll be in a taxi undertaking while the driver is smoking a spliff next

GM228 · 17-12-2021 9:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118333692#Comment_118333692

"Take this road for example, the R132. Drivers on the R132 road (lets' call them driver A) have priority over those joining from the R127 (driver B), where there is a HUGE unmissable Yield Sign"

They don't, both drivers are in different traffic lanes once traffic from the R127 has joined the R132, a yield sign only applies to the vehicle on approach to a junction, presumably that is an old sign from before a layout chagne, in law it is meaningless due to the layout of the road because further on where you suggest they must let you in is (a) past the junction, and (b) are two separate lanes now, the law is specific on who has priority in each traffic lane.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118339280#Comment_118339280

"The drivers in the leftmost lane are supposed to yield to the drivers moving across from the right lane, what else do you think the yield sign is for?"

The drier in each lane has the right of way over any other driver trying to join that lane, the driver in the left absolutely does not have to slow down to let a driver from the right lane join their lane.

Correct procedure to avoid being undertaken when you get a blowout in this scenario

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