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Will you be taking a booster?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 25 VeryWise


    Just some thoughts using amateur basic segmentation, there is a large group, probably around 60% judging by lowest uptake in other countries that trust the experts, feel vulnerable, want to help others etc. that took vaccines gladly and will take boosters too. Great.

    Then there is a group of sceptics that just don’t trust the vaccine and won’t take it without extreme coercion. In Ireland this is a small number because of the strong social contract, probably under 10% judging by success of first roll out.

    Then there is a group of around 30% that are not strongly motivated in either direction. First time out there was a form of social contract where by and large this group were happy to take the vaccine to protect the vulnerable on the understanding that then life could return to normal. And for many they believed this was the end game. This delivered a 90+% vaccination rate.

    A marketing expert would probably tell you this 30% is your key group to encourage to get boosters if you believe that’s the priority. But the attraction of boosters is lower this time out as they offer less personal upside to this group. For example, you need a negative test as well as a vaccine passport to re enter the state. Makes it a much higher hurdle to leave Ireland for more than a day or two. Now we add new limits on socialisation for vaccinated people, closing earlier and likely expiry of vaccine pass in a few months.

    I know there’s many other factors at play but I think for many of the 30% the calculations will be different this time and it will take much longer to get to overall boosted numbers much above 75 or 80%.



  • Registered Users Posts: 31,084 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    You say you are at high risk from COVID and yet won't take a booster.

    That makes no sense. A booster will reduce your risk of severe disease. This is not a "narrative".

    Have you spoken with your GP about this?



  • Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭Vaccinated30


    Yes high risk, originally in cohort 4 and received my 1st dose in March 2021. 2 vaccines reduce my risk of severe disease by a huge percentage. Yes I have spoken to my GP, who has been my GP for almost 25 years, I have a great rapport and make a very good argument for my reasoning which couldn't be disputed. Except that I may get some Nabs from a booster that may stop the initial infection. 2 vaccines still are efficient for priming the immune system training it how to deal with an infection. Sars-CoV2 is not novel to a vaccinated person's immune system. On a side note, I've been around lots of covid+ people in the last 3 months, helping mind children while parents are sick etc And no infection. I'd take a guess that my Nabs are fine, but if not my memory t cells and memory b cells will do their job. I am in no different position now than a few weeks ago, before boosters were recommended. The narrative changed to needing boosters, although the government clearly don't think they are even going to work, why else introduce restrictions for all, including those with boosters. Try see the wood from the trees. I'd rather take the very very low risk and die of covid than live this existence.

    Should a tweaked vaccine specifically targeting a current strain be released, then I will get that. If we go to needing a shot every September for the variant in circulation ahead of the winter wave then I will get that just as I get the flu shot.

    I won't take another vaccine for a variant that's no longer around, while my Immune system is primed perfectly already.

    Would you put on jeans you used to wear aged 16 or would you accept that they no longer fit?


    Edit*

    If I had cancer and refused Treatment, would you be as outraged? Would you tell me it made no sense. Would you tell me that Chemo could seriously reduce my likely hood of death.

    Cancer is not contagious but treatment only helps the person receiving it just as vaccines for covid is to protect the individual.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    I know there’s many other factors at play but I think for many of the 30% the calculations will be different this time and it will take much longer to get to overall boosted numbers much above 75 or 80%.

    Polls on who would get vaccinated were consistently above 90%, more recent ones on boosters are at about 80%.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    are any of these regarded as best... as it happens i have option for either...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    That's a different matter. Whether someone who has already had Covid now has sufficient antibodies to provide protection is a question that can presumably be answered by testing. It's not always true, because we know there are people who have got Covid twice, but it may be true in many cases.

    I was responding to a different point, which was the suggestion that contracting Covid was the best way to acquire immunity, and that therefore people should prefer contracting Covid over taking a booster vaccine. Contracting Covid is not the bst way; it's easily the most dangerous way to acquire immunity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,875 ✭✭✭billyhead




  • Registered Users Posts: 31,084 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    @Vaccinated30 wrote

    If I had cancer and refused Treatment, would you be as outraged?

    I'm not outraged. Your decisions don't affect me and your health doesn't concern me. I'm just curious about your reasoning.

    The narrative changed to needing boosters, although the government clearly don't think they are even going to work, why else introduce restrictions for all, including those with boosters. Try see the wood from the trees. I'd rather take the very very low risk and die of covid than live this existence.

    Can you explain what you mean by "live this existence" as it relates to your vaccine choice? How will your life change for the worse after you spend half an hour getting a jab?

    Or is it something like a sense of regaining control, to refuse the invitation? To push back against authoritarianism?



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Boosters were also touted as a way to get through this period and with these new restrictions now they are not. That's a public health message problem but it doesn't exactly encourage people, who are less enthusiastic, to queue up for boosters.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,234 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    We crossed points so, but on your POV.. is it not safer now for an extensively vaccinated adult population to catch Covid?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 31,084 ✭✭✭✭Lumen




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,234 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Agreed, but the margins are finer. When this first blew up in early 2020, we were all very wary of the unknown and taking elaborate precautions. Things have changed and people can weigh up the relative risks now better for themselves. Isn't that what personal responsibility is about, rather than dictate by state?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Your choice but it seems your feelings are deciding not evidence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,549 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Getting mine in a local pharmacy in about an hour



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    What baffles people is that are people so adamant against being put on blood thinners, hooked up to oxygen.


    Fine if you don't want a booster but give your word that you will not go to the Doctor or hospital if you get it.

    That you'll own your decision and be responsible for your own life.


    Not specifically directed at you is that so, so it isn't.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    That's a different matter. Whether someone who has already had Covid now has sufficient antibodies to provide protection is a question that can presumably be answered by testing. It's not always true, because we know there are people who have got Covid twice, but it may be true in many cases.

    The number who do get reinfected is tiny and again clustered heavily in the elderly. The Brits after looking at the figures in summer concluded out of nearly 4 million people with confirmed infections. This is equivalent to around 0.4% cases becoming reinfected. Tiny percentage. How many of the vaccinated have had breakthrough infections? I'd bet it's significantly more than 0.4%.

    I am NOT suggesting contracting covid without the protection of a vaccine is clever as the vaccines clearly protected against serious illness and death, particularly in the most vulnerable demographics. However, if you're under 60, don't have underlying conditions(including being fat), if you have had covid in the last few months and triply so if you have been vaccinated on top, in my opinion a booster is hardly warranted and it's more about keeping the booster! booster! stuff in the public mind. I'm not seeing the science in it at all.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Problem is that there are an awful lot of people between 40 and 60 who do have underlying conditions.

    Diabetes, asthma, blood pressure, hemachromatisis, and on and on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 31,084 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    It's quite difficult to have a conversation about the medical risk/benefits of a vaccine if people are going to drag in phrases like "dictate by state".

    For instance, the state "dictates" that the minimum smoking age is 18. Does that have any bearing of the physiological effects of smoking for under 18s? No.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Just some thoughts using amateur basic segmentation, there is a large group, probably around 60% judging by lowest uptake in other countries that trust the experts, feel vulnerable, want to help others etc. that took vaccines gladly and will take boosters too. Great.

    Then there is a group of sceptics that just don’t trust the vaccine and won’t take it without extreme coercion. In Ireland this is a small number because of the strong social contract, probably under 10% judging by success of first roll out.

    I'd agree with you, save for the "strong social contract" part as the reason. The Irish psyche/culture has long shown itself to be conformist, compliant, even servile to authority(and all too quick to turn on those that aren't) so the high uptake wasn't a surprise when compared to other cultures. In other cultures like the former Soviet bloc nations where authority is mistrusted and for good reasons uptake was significantly less. When I read recently that a large percentage of those in Irish ICU's were from "Eastern Europe" that wasn't a surprise either.

    In practical terms compliance in a culture is good in times of pandemics. It's one reason why East Asian nations generally got a much better handle on this pox and earlier in the campaign too.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    And they should get their boosters as an extra precaution. Same for those under 40 with the same underlying conditions. I never suggested otherwise. I am questioning the notion that someone who has been already vaccinated and caught covid who isn't in that group needs a booster. Indeed even for people in that group who got vaccinated and had covid in the last couple of months I am not seeing anything close to good science that suggests lining up for a booster is warranted.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 31,084 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Maybe it's worth considering our responses to other public health advice.

    I drink alcohol regularly. Medically speaking, there is no safe lower limit for alcohol. I would be healthier, all other things being equal, if I didn't drink alcohol. I also don't get as much exercise as I should, and could do with eating less sugar and more vegetables. All of these behaviours are counter to public health advice.

    I choose not to follow all public health advice, because....reasons. I enjoy booze, sugar, and sitting on my arse. But I don't deny the science.

    So I understand how someone can choose to avoid a booster, I entirely accept that it is their choice, and I'm self-aware to accept that there are things I do that are bad for me and that go against medical advice, but I also do not deny the science because it makes my choices look bad. I would also not try to persuade other people that being a boozy, lazy sugar fiend is a good idea.

    I have not come across a single qualified medical opinion that boosters are not a good idea, and I'm quite happy sticking with that lazy appeal to authority.



  • Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    I'm not going to bother with the booster, but I can guarantee you that if I do get sick with covid, or anything else for that matter, I'll be first in the door of the hospital.

    Why?

    Because I pay my taxes, the same as everyone else. I've paid for the health service, and by god I'm going to use it if I need it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 372 ✭✭Jimi H


    I’m in that group - early 40s and no underlying conditions. Second jab floored me and I’ve been considering whether or not to get the booster. Anyway, made my decision yesterday, contacted my GP and am booked in for Wednesday. Overall I’m happy that I’m getting it.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Well the science and advice going by the HSE today is if you've been vaccinated you wait at least 90 days/three months before you can get a booster, if you've contracted covid you must wait at least six months before getting a booster. So on the one hand protection from covid infection is not nearly as good as protection from a vaccine, yet on the other hand in black and white the same science and advice is suggesting it's twice as good. People who've been vaccinated and have had covid, essentially they've been boosted already regardless of the order of exposure, are also being told they must get a booster. That's a fair bit of contradictory advice and science going on.


    BTW if your tipple is red wine and a moderate consumption of same going by the science you'll likely love longer and be more healthy than a teetotaller.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    The "we'll exclude you if you get sick because you're not playing along" stuff is more along the lines of what I posted earlier: The Irish psyche/culture has long shown itself to be conformist, compliant, even servile to authority(and all too quick to turn on those that aren't). Just as a healthy society shouldn't judge itself by the wealth of its wealthy, but by how poor its poor are, it should also judge itself not by how it treats the conformists, but how it treats the non conformists. And since we live in a pretty healthy society all in, only the reactive would suggest declining healthcare for the non boosted/vaccinated. There is pretty much zero chance of you being denied healthcare should you ever need it. This is a good thing.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,446 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    BTW if your tipple is red wine and a moderate consumption of same going by the science you'll likely love longer and be more healthy than a teetotaller.

    I thought that was debunked some years ago...

    found this: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191021-is-wine-good-for-you



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,234 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Well it will be by dictate, if as An Taoiseach moots, that having a 'booster' will become a requirement for any future vaccine certificate. That is an effective dictate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,234 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    It's very questionable logic indeed and makes little sense. Reinforces the view that they're just making it up on the hoof as they go along. So what's next?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,649 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    I’ll absolutely get the booster, but I have a feeling man just won’t out of protest now. It is a shame really, the communications for the vaccine being what we need was handled very poorly, and this is where we have ended up now over it.

    Many will question why, and who could blame them? It will be anti vaxx bliss when we are told you need your booster to get into anywhere.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,185 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    I dont know about the booster but the double dose vaccine gives fook all protection on the transmission end.

    Got it in our house couple weeks back. Spread like wildfire and all double vaccinated.

    Dont intend on getting booster until forced because if ya keep this up yall be taking booster 160 in ten years time.

    We're not all old fogies turning up for a medical and injection every 2 months. Most of us are healthy people.

    If it doesn't stop transmission what use is it if ya can fight it naturally.

    I think the new restrictions being introduced should give us an indication that transmission rate is not in decline with 93% vaccinated.

    Until they sort that there is no point what so ever if your healthy people taking anymore. I'm taking it to stop transmission to vulnerable groups.

    If it's not doing that well then now.



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