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Formula 1 Round 22 Abu Dhabi GP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Anjobe


    The Baku race this year was restarted after a similarly late red flag.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Anjobe


    People don't have a problem with the safety car, at least not specifically in relation to this incident. If the crash had occurred 1 lap earlier and there had been time to end the safety car period and restart the race properly there would have been no real issue, it would have been hard on Lewis and lucky for Max but the luck had been going the other way earlier in the season and Max would have deserved his.

    The way Masi handled the end of the safety car period is the only issue here. He had to depart from the normal procedures in order to get the race restarted for the last lap, and the way in which he did this favoured one car in the race over all the others and directly influenced the result of the both race and the championship. It is just wrong that one man has the authority to do this on the spur of the moment, and Masi showed very poor judgement in the way he handled things.

    I don't think Mercedes are blaming everybody but themselves, they just feel very let down by the above. With hindsight it is possible to suggest things they could have done differently during the race but unfortunately the strategists have to act on the information they have at the time and cannot predict the future, for the race leader to follow a risky strategy based on the possibility of future SC or VSC periods would have been crazy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,111 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    Well they restarted Baku with 2 laps to go. Masi was also allowed to restart the race with all the lapped cars still in place as he originally indicated. As for not a red flag situation, I get that. But going forward I think it should be a red flag situation should it arise again. Remember grid starts wipe out all commanding gaps as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,541 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    The real tragedy with all of this is looking at people who just started watching F1, try and explain it to you.

    Painful.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,394 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    Has it been labelled a 'racist decision' yet ?? 🙄


    Sick of listening/reading about it now ....

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,611 ✭✭✭quokula


    What would have been a farce would be to manipulate the safety car and keep it out an extra two laps after the track was clear just to ensure that Hamilton would win even though the rules clearly state that the clerk of the course should bring in the safety car when the track is safe and the teams previously unanimously agreed that in situations like this finishing under a green flag should take all priority as long as it is safe, which it was.

    It’s unfortunate that all the lobbying slowed down the normal procedure of letting lapped cars through which should have been done much earlier, and this meant that they could only correctly let most of them through, but doing the normal thing for most backmarkers was preferable to doing the normal thing for none of them and ultimately that had no effect on the outcome. People are really clutching at straws if they think Sainz would risk throwing away 5th in the championship by needlessly trying to attack a much faster car on the final lap, and that he’d have succeeded if he tried. Even in prerace interviews guys like Norris were saying they didn’t want to risk interfering in the championship battle and were aiming for third.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55,600 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Lewis and Wolff did not attend Thursday’s gala I see..

    real sore losers…

    Hamilton’s so called graciousness Sunday was, as I thought at the time, all for the cameras!!!

    Unless he has a really good excuse?

    and what is with these women throwing in their tuppence worth? Toto needs to get a leash on Susie…..😅

    bringing the sport into disrepute with her little rant…and Toto’s to blame!



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,226 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Painful? You mean the fantastic airtime it got on us media?

    Just listen to the descriptions of the race. "It was a walk-off home-run, a buzzer beater and a hail Mary, all rolled into one. It was the final lap of the final race. It brought chaos, controversy, and a new champion". That's amazing coverage.

    And they gave it all that fantastic coverage FOR FREE, simply because of the circumstances. It was actually news worthy of the first time in years.

    You're seeing this coverage as an unmitigated success for f1 in the US, right?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,541 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    It’s more to do with his analogies and comparisons.

    The finale was a great success for F1. Drama, excitement and a new champ, but listening to bandwagoners try to describe it hurts the baby Jesus.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,456 ✭✭✭This is it


    It doesn't matter if they would have tried to or not, it's that they should have had the option should they have wanted to.

    No one will convince me that letting some cars unlap was the right or correct decision, for Max v Hamilton, or the rest of the grid.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,226 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    As opposed to not even considering covering it in a mainstream contemporary comedy show because it's not newsworthy. Analogies notwithstanding, it's fantastic coverage for F1. Major success.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    I don’t watch F1 really ,but do watch other motorsports.

    that was comical to be honest.

    what is the point of having rules if Masi can just change it how he likes?

    Also, how can the team directors be talking to the steward and making deals.

    they made some deal last race also over the radio.

    crazy.

    Anyway the safety car always closing the bunch up through no fault of people that had no effect is always a bit sour.

    they really should come up with some other solution,

    the gaps should be reinstated , cross a line and wait for a signal on the wheel for when you are allowed to go.

    Would cut out that accelerating and braking game before the safety car restart also, dangerous in itself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,541 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    I’ve already agreed on that.

    But him talking about an advantage being wiped out and then using American football as an example, he had no mentioned of the season over all, just one race.

    Never mentioned Hamilton taking Verstappen out…god no.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,562 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    So reinstate the gaps after a safety car, so after a red flag too so? That means Hamilton finishes maybe 7th or 8th in Imola which means Max didn't need to pass Hamilton on Sunday in the last lap .......



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭McFly85


    Hard disagree.

    Remove the safety car strategy and then it’s just fastest car wins(your solution probably favours the lead car even more as having everyone else stop and wait means they’ll lose more tire temp)

    What was interesting going into last week is that if Hamilton and Verstappen were at all close, Verstappen had one advantage, which was that he could afford contact - which shaped Mercedes race strategy, avoid racing Verstappen if at all possible, which meant maintaining track position and distance, and gambling that there’d be no safety car.

    Mercedes could have pitted and given track position to Max and chased him down. Would have meant they were in a much better position should a late safety car happen but Verstappen would have made it difficult to pass and they’d be kicking themselves if they ended in a DNF(but really had that happened they’d be in a much better position to get RB penalised and the result overturned).

    All of the decisions made between Mercedes, Red Bull and Masi contributed to that finale was saw.

    Having a system to maintain distances between cars would remove that element of strategy and would mean track position is king, and you’re completely safe once you’re out in front, and races wouldn’t be worth watching to the end.

    So I can understand people being unhappy with drama being created outside of the teams and drivers, but a lot of these suggestions just serve to remove any enjoyment from racing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    I don’t have a preference for any driver, but watching that it was a joke , for many reasons.

    I didn’t follow the season and haven’t for many years.

    A red flag is a race stoppage isn’t it? So a restart is necessary? How many races a year are red flagged?

    safety cars seem to be plentiful, particularly around tracks of the same ilk as Monaco , Saudi.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    Is it really an element of strategy if it is pot luck wether some dude smashes into a wall? And brings out a safety car?

    and the luck of wether that Masi didn’t decide what he decided?

    If people want this because it brings excitement then the rest of the sport has issues.

    and just your comment about favouring the lead driver, well that’s what being in the lead is , there has got be some incentive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,562 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Imola, Baku, Silverstone, Jeddah all had red flags


    Red flags are a race stoppage. At Imola Hamilton binned it, spent 2 minutes trying to get out of a gravel trap and was lapped before Bottas and Russell crashed bringing out a red flag. Hamilton limped back to the pits, got damage repaired abd tyres changed, and then unlapped himself under the red flag and finished second


    Max 25/Hamilton 6 if no red flag

    Max 25/Hamilton 18 because of the red flag


    So you cannot argue against cars closing up under a SC and ignore what happens under red flag situation IMO


    Hamilton caused a crash at Silverstone and the Merc team gambled on a red flag being needed and repaired his car under that red flag. Hamilton and Wolff pushing the robbed/disillusioned agenda is utter crap. We never heard a word out of them about this when the SC or Red Flags fell their way to huge advantage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭McFly85


    Of course it is. Had Hamilton decided to go on fresh tires earlier the safety car is largely irrelevant. He chose not to do that to stay away from Max.

    Safety cars are known entities that strategies are built around. It doesn’t automatically hand the race to the driver behind you.

    If you want to have races without any strategy or incident at all then why don’t we just have teams do a few practice laps and then AWS can tell us who the race winner will be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭McFly85


    I’ve heard multiple times that apparently anything up to this point doesn’t matter, this is what decided the championship. Convenient nonsense.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    Look, I don’t watch F1 so not really up to speed, but watching that race the weekend it’s obvious the sport is broken.

    my comment about safety cars was just a quick thought.

    the most exciting things going in that race was TOTO crying on the radio like a baby, and whatever else was going on around the track bar the racing itself.

    its obvious something needs to be done, but how the race finished was a joke.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,562 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    OK, regardless of the finish on Sunday do you accept that earlier in the season Hamilton made huge gains in similar circumstances when there was a crash involving other cars. And that if the rules were more aligned with your thinking, then the last lap on Sunday would have been irrelevent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,867 ✭✭✭donspeekinglesh


    They used to do that, but people found aggregate racing too confusing... See Suzuka 1994 for an an example.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    I didn’t watch the earlier season, as I said I haven’t watched it for many years.

    that very well may be the truth?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,562 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Eh its actually what happened. Your making a judgement on 6 laps of Race 22. If your logic applied, Max carries a 12 point lead into Sundays race. So that last lap under green is irrelevant



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    Yea that’s great?

    can you not see how the whole end of that race was a farce, regardless of what happened in the rest of the season?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,562 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    No I don't. Safety cars are part of the sport. What exactly was a farce, that the race director got the race back underway?



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,226 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    No. As far as I've seen, you're the only one to bring up racism in this whole issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    That the race director just decided whatever he wanted?

    nobody knew what was happening.

    the commentators were shocked when the safety came in when it did.

    the other points in the season where you say Hamilton gained an advantage were rules and procedures followed or was discretion applied?

    nobody knew if cars were gonna unlap themselves,

    nobody knew if the safety car would come in.

    why did Masi decide it was only first and second that could fight and why didn’t he let 3rd place close up?

    did he make a mockery of the rules in all the other races throughout the year?

    a lot of issues there, anyway I don’t have the knowledge of F1 and the season to be really debating it.

    i may be wrong I may not be.

    just from watching that it was a bit ridiculous that the top tier in motorsport racing can end in a sh*tshow like that.😁



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,562 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    The race director got the race underway at the first opportunity. That's his job. Once it's safe to race, bring the SC in. That's what happened.


    What the commentators think is irrelevant.


    You can't complain about something you clearly know fcuk all about. Drivers all the last few weeks when asked about the title race kept saying they didn't want to get involved.


    Michael Masi is the race director. He has the discretion to make decisions in order to get the race back under way. That's what he did. So no he didn't make a mockery of the rules.



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