Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/ffd3f-minister-for-health-announces-plan-to-expand-critical-care-capacity-to-446-beds/

As I said, it takes a long time, hence why the above is a MULTI-YEAR plan. In the meantime, we need to have a short term plan. How hard is it to get that through your skull?

Now, can we put to bed this claim that the current government have done nothing to address ICU capacity? They have started worked on multi-year plans to expand capacity, which take time for the reasons I've already addressed. While that plan is executed, we need to manage with what the system currently can handle.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. It's a solution for the term of the "public health emergency" that is the Covid-19 pandemic.

Longer-term it's definitely not a solution. Only a complete gutting of HSE management will suffice for that.

Ah right yes, that's fair enough, my point was around people who say that we should have added a lot of permanent new capacity to the health system by now (ie. from last year to now), which takes longer than that to put in place unfortunately.

Your point is inane, you seem to think you are the only person who knows that building ICU capacity is hard, as if it is some big secret you have figured out. I'm starting to believe you are indeed young, its very much a pretentious student attitude.

What the adults know is that we have been here before and take what the HSE says with a pinch of salt. For example, you linked to the plan to expand critical care capacity, can you not see from that link that we have already failed to meet the phase one target of 321 beds by the end of 2021? (We had 301 at the end of November, maybe they added 20 in December, if so I will retract).

Adults look at the slaintecare debacle, the childrens hospital debacle, the broken promises of the past and the fact that we now have to go into lockdown yet again and so the obvious is not to clap on our balcony like a moron, it is to say "Yeah, we know its hard, but we are sick of this HSE bullshit, show us some real institutional change that gives us hope that we don't have to go through this ever again".

Maybe in about 20 years you will be having this same conversation with another kid who is only seeing it for the first time.

Well one last hooray for 2021.....

Not going to hold back, so found something to make the night unforgettable.....😁

and might not be well in the morning I'd say, but as its the last After 8 party I think it will be worth it to push the boat out a bit.....

Its not about countering anything, and its not moving the goalposts to state that they have already missed the first target they set which doesn't inspire confidence that they will meet the longer term targets.

My point was always that we need to see institutional change in the HSE, search that word and you will a long post from me yesterday saying exactly that.

We are facing into another lockdown, less than 2 years after the first and for exactly the same reason. You might be happy to shrug your shoulders and be happy that they are doing their best, but I for one expect better than that.

What way of "Dealing with" do you seek ?

There are a multitude of things in our World which are not "Right",with Covid vaccine availability being way down any meaningful list.

I see nothing "wrong" with a 5 year old Irish child receiving a Jab whilst an African does'nt.

So keeping it as simple as you wish,it's a YES.

As for the supposed inequity in this,I would direct you to the Irish Overseas Aid Budget for 2020 (Not the best of years round these parts ) which stood at €867.5 Million spent.

https://www.irishaid.ie/what-we-do/how-our-aid-works/where-the-money-goes/

For a small,some would say,still developing country on the periphery of Europe,Ireland's Taxpayers more than accquit themselves in aiding a wide selection of African countries....

So,to reiterate for clarity,given that EVERY Irish taxpayer already has a direct input into both targeted Covid-19 stuff,in addition to the usual long running relief programmes I see nothing wrong with Ireland then concentrating on at least those already resident on our Island before rushing to flog ourselves over a far away continent,many of whose inhabitants will have NOTHING to do with any form of 21st century medicines of even the most basic forms.

Reality may often be sad and distasteful....but,it remains Reality.

True. I don't like when people have too much of an Irishcentric view on things but it's true, the arguments seem to change when there's normality and the same people defending Government will defend them when they are the most conservative when it comes to unwinding restrictions.

TBH, it's our ingrained personality traits that cause us to be on one side of the fence or the other, the best thing we can do is have a reasoned debate and hope that we get as close to the truth as possible.

In this present moment, there seems to be no way that you can remain open given the uncertainty surrounding Omicron, there's just too much at stake and too short a time to mull over and dissect the morality of deciding to live truly with Covid but EVENTUALLY we will have to come to that point because no matter how improved our ICU capacity becomes or what HSE reforms are brought in to improve efficiency, we will never get out of this because we will never have enough capacity to deal with the numbers of infections That might still happen but we can't bank on it. I will be very interested to see when the west faces the full economic brunt of these continued lockdowns because you can be sure if was higher earners being affected there would be much more of a status quo pushback against restrictions. This will eventually happen; the services sector is too important both from a societal and economic standpoint. We have seen the phenomenon in China where young people decide to 'lay flat', what happens when young people decide to exit service based positions because what's the point?

What in the name of christ are you talking about? I haven't moved any goalposts in the slightest, I am showing you that the HSE is not culpable for these new measures as other health systems are having to do the same thing.

Goalpost moving means that you make one point, get proven wrong, then change to a tangential point. You claimed that the HSE is at fault for us staring into another lockdown, and I used other countries in Europe being forced to take the same measures as a counter. That is not goalpost moving. I'm going to stop wasting my time with this discussion as it is going absolutely nowhere.

Ireland will be in a full lockdown very shortly, just like a few lads in here very definitely said would not happen.

I have to say I really don't see the point of a lockdown if Omicron is as transmissible as reported. It would need to last for months otherwise every single time you reopen the cases will shoot up again within days. And it would need to be very severely enforced otherwise it will just spread anyway even with the reduced contacts. In a country that is sick of restrictions and no longer trusting the government people will flout the lockdown terms and cases will shoot up within days.

It is a fools errand if you ask me, but here we are.

I naively thought that kind of stuff was all behind us. Ugh.

Worse than NOTHING.

Why would the HSE's OWN report in 2009 set out clear unambiguous requirements and targets regarding Critical Care and ICU requirements for the country if,AT THAT JUNCTURE it was'nt already an urgent requirement ?

These people had 11 YEARS before Covid arrived,and in those 11 years of constantly expanding funding,they decided to do NOTHING !

Is nobody in your world now allowed to ask WHY ? or seek an explanation as to WHY action was NOT sanctioned then,and WHO took the decisions to do NOTHING back then ?

As you said,"It takes along time"....how damn "long" do you want ? 5,10,15.....ah sure why not say 1,000 years,and then sit back and watch the current HSE crew "start work" on ensuring whatever target you pick will indeed become a MULTI-MULTI-MULTI Year plan,with only those involved in the Planning Disciplines seeing any reward,as the Professional Fees & Charges,and Consultancy Work renumeration head towards the next galaxy.

To sit there in December 2021, and type that our Current Government have STARTED WORK on (yet another) multi-year plan quite simply shows a reality short-circuit of incredible proportions.

People will,eventually wake up from the current well planned and instituted Torpor,and start asking the questions which have lain unasked for nearly 20 years.

If these remain unasked & unanswered,then forget about regaining any form of normality,and we can continue as we generally prefer...as sure'n it could be worse ! 😰

Shockingly late with the booster roll out. Ireland done great to be fair, but can you imagine some of the Eastern European countries and even worse the USA if this thing turns out bad.

Fair points. I think Omicron all but guarantees that things will be back to normal by the next election. It's so ultra-contagious that, whether it's as severe as Delta or not, it will have swept the country in short order. So we will either have endemic Covid with lots of additional deaths or endemic covid with few additional deaths.

I think (sincerely - I'm not being glib) that a lot of people are going to need some support to move from pandemic covid to endemic covid, because the immense propaganda over the last two years has created a "stop all deaths from covid in particular at ANY cost" outlook in some people, as well as the pernicious idea that it is right to attribute "fault" in the passing of communicable disease. Which is not their fault, but people are always going to be dying of covid (even if Omicron is a "common cold" as the most optimistic assessments seem to suggest - plenty of people die from pneumonia after a common cold every year).