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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,871 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    I used to think you guys were nutjobs.


    Now I am not so sure............



  • Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭PicardWithHair


    Look around at what is happening, what will be different next winter that means it won't happen then ??

    and the winter after that etc ...



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,544 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    The thread title is ALL covid measures are permanent, nothing is permanent though, masks may last 3 months or 3 years, that's not permanent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,105 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    There is nothing even vaguely complicated about this thread and it`s far form being a battlefield.

    it`s a playroom where the adults in the room have been trying to find out what these conspiracy theories are, who is behind them and what the supposedly end purpose is..

    Nothing has been debunked because there has been nothing to debunk Any questions have been answered with nothing other than attempts at deflection, the complete ignoring of inconvenient facts and toy throwing before childlike stomping out of the room.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Just like the temporary 'just two weeks to flatten the curve' that was supposed to end two years ago. The temporary USC, the temporary income tax.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There never won't be a risk of cases overwhelming the health service. Nphet will never not be concerned. We know they won't because all of summer 2020 they were concerned when there were very few cases and a tiny number of deaths.


    You say recommended as long as it's a threat. I say mandatory as long as it's a threat, and it always will be a threat. Nphet want zero covid. There was an interview with a doctor from nphet (was mentioned on another thread, don't remember her name) and she said that they don't want any covid in Ireland. That's zero covid.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    First one hasn't been debunked. The problem is 'all'. I would say 99% (masks, vaccine passports, social distancing, businesses operating under heavy restrictions, businesses closing for ages and then opening for a few weeks, mass testing). The only easing I see is every few months a few places half reopening.


    And there are people who say that the vaccines don't work. I don't say they don't work. I'm not qualified to give an opinion on them. But many scientists and doctors give the impression that they believe they don't work all that well by refusing to lift measures and actually increasing restrictions.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And yet you never stop posting on it. I don't bother with threads I don't find insightful or that don't interest me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    You have changed your mind on this several times.

    You've gone from "All" to "Some" to "Just masks" to "Just masks and certs" to "Just vaccines" back to "All" and now "99%"

    And of course, you refuse to explain why any of this is actually happening because you either you can't or you don't want to reveal your true beliefs.

    You are changing your position on vaccines as well. Your buddies have been declaring up and down this thread and the other claiming that the vaccines don't work and the vaccines are dangerous. Not once have you challenged them or called them out on their lies and misinformation. You clearly agree with what they say. So yes, you are saying they don't work. Your pretend fence sitting doesn't fool anyone.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,966 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    It doesn't need a rebuttal any more than flat-earth stuff needs to be addressed. Just because you are bamboozled by crankery and woo on a regular basis doesn't mean normal people are.

    It's obvious you trawl conspiracy sites, find their "cheat-sheets" and conspiracy-via-denial crap, paste dump that garbage in here mindlessly, ask for it to be "explained", and the moment anyone actually takes the time to explain the nonsense, you ignore it and run off to find the next pile of **** to post in here

    Explain what the conspiracy is, if you can't, there's nothing to discuss.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    And I have to say, I do find this thread very insightful.

    It's been very illuminating just how dishonest, ignorant and completely detached from reality conspiracy theories are.

    It's made clear to me that conspiracy theories now are just a media business that tricks gullible rubes into self perpetuating this bullshit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭Bogwoppit


    So you agree that it’s been debunked then, thanks for finally admitting it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,966 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    It's clear don't understand the measures or the pandemic, or you're pretending not to, that is the core issue here.

    In order to believe in a conspiracy, any conspiracy, then denial of the facts is required. You'll notice that every conspiracy theorist here does that regardless of what their conspiracy is, so whether they think it's Satan behind it, or the "NWO", or the "Elites" or "Communism", they all engage in the same denial and discrediting of everything, from masks, to vaccines, to measures, and so on.

    Open up any thread on this forum or on any conspiracy forum and you'll find the exact same thing. It's dumb as bricks, but that's how a small percentage of people are wired



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,426 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Why is a denial of facts needed to believe in a conspiracy? Conspiracies happen daily that is a fact.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    That's not what he said.

    The conspiracy theories being vaguely hinted at in this thread require denials of fact.

    Conspiracy theories like the idea of fake moon landings or secret demolition of the World Trade Centre require denials of fact.


    For example on this thread and the other, people have been claimin gthat the vaccines don't work or are secretly dangerous. This is a denial of fact.

    Why do you not have an issue with the false things being claimed by conspiracy theorists on this thread?

    Do you believe that they haven't said anything false?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Yep, but nobody is coming in here to post theories about some company CEO syphoning money from their employees pension fund, or a fast food chain selling horse meat burgers, or a former superpower trying to influence an election result in another country, or a car manufacturer trying to fake emissions tests.


    The conspiracies which get posted in here are the stupid ones, that have no reason for happening and nobody can point to any evidence of them happening or explain how they are the only person to figure it out despite the minimum of tens of thousands of people needing to keep it secret never blowing the whistle on the conspiracy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,966 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Do you see those conspiracies showing up on this forum? Rare to say the least

    These are the more "fantastical" conspiracies here. They require people to reject "mainstream media", attack science, trash the experts and so on. You'll notice that pattern in most threads here.

    Likewise you'll struggle to find threads where users detail and discuss the conspiracy themselves, as explained it's all about discrediting the facts to create doubt in order to hint some unspecified conspiracy is taking place. Covid, 9/11, space travel, Las Vegas shooting, to name a few recent ones. Even the JFK thread is completely absent of any coherent conspiracies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,426 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Look at recent history, even within this small country. Until recently ideas such as the church protecting pedophile members, senior politicians accepting cash payments, banks facilitating widespread tax evasion and also knowingly overcharging customers, were all harebrained conspiracies that main stream media, experts etc either ignored or derided.

    Not to mention other conspiracies such as government collusion in murders on this island, the arming and training by the Irish government of the IRA etc.

    Far from thrashing science some conspiracies such as the tobacco industry and big oil, have used the science they pay for to protect their own interests.

    Posters desperate to dismiss any conspiracy in favour of the official narrative have an abundance of scepticism except when it comes to the accepted version of events. Weapons of mass destruction anyone?

    Furthermore scepticism of an official narrative does not require sceptics to present an alternative version of events.

    Some things cannot be known. Who was responsible for the Dublin and Monaghan bombings? Were Roger Casements Black Diaries forged by the British?

    Having an open mind while being sceptical of all narratives and the agenda that drives them is often the safest course.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,765 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    This is the most cringy thing Ive ever seen

    https://twitter.com/JaneDoe02407913/status/1472224369267167233



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And yet you never stop posting here. No interest then don't bother.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You keep saying tens of thousands of people. That's not true at all. It could be a small number of people. I say could, not is. There are lots of secret societies around that the public has no idea what they're about, or rather what goes on during their meetings. Bilderberg Group, Bohemian Grove, Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations, Club of Rome etc.


    Did you know, for example, that the Dutch Government has entered into legally binding agreements with the World Economic Forum: Pepijn van Houwelingen on Twitter: "Wow.... In antwoord op uitstekende Kamervragen van @GideonvMeijeren geeft de regering toe dat er overeenkomsten gesloten zijn met het World Economic Forum die “juridisch bindend” zijn! Zijn die overeenkomsten openbaar? Wie onderhandelt dit uit namens wie? Wat is de rol van de TK? https://t.co/NZPiM4JOF1" / Twitter (In Dutch, but you can Google Translate it)


    WEF is an unelected organisation and it enters into legally binding agreements with the government of a democratic nation. Were the people ever asked or consulted about the agreements? No. Is it possible that other governments have entered into agreements with WEF? It is. I don't know whether they have or not, but if the Dutch Government has then it's possible. But going by your logic it would have been impossible for those behind closed doors agreements to have been made because somebody would have blown the whistle.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,484 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    For the vaccine 5G believers, these are great products. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-59703523



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    How many people would be required to get governments to impose unnecessary restrictions on their populations? Would some independent scientists or hospital staff not notice if there was no covid happening? How are you keeping all of those people quiet all around the world?


    How many people would be involved in putting 5g chips into the vaccines? Are the chips put in at manufacturing, if so how are they tracking who is jabbed with which chip and how are you keeping those vaccination personnel quiet all around the world?

    Or maybe the chips are added just before vaccination, so you still have masses of vaccinators who you need to keep quiet.

    Or who has decided that masks must be worn when not needed, or social distancing is required when not needed, or entertainment businesses must shut when not needed... But you have hundreds of world governments all doing the same things and carried out by their civil services... Yet you are keeping all of those people quiet as well?


    Which of the measures being used to fight covid do you think can be setup as a worldwide conspiracy, but with only a small handful of people running the show and nobody else noticing?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    As for the Dutch thing, couldn't see any link to what the agreement is for. Could be to provide catering services for all we can tell from what you have provided.


    Tell us what the agreement is for and what worries you about it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "Dutch ministers regularly participate in meetings organized by the WEF," the cabinet said in its answers to Van Meijeren's parliamentary questions. "In addition, there are partnerships with the WEF that have been established in the following areas: Sustainable Investment Policy, Tropic Forrest Alliance, Food System Initiative, Food Innovation Hubs."

    'The obligations laid down in these agreements shall be legally binding.'"


    Kabinet geeft toe aan FVD: 'Ja, wij sluiten juridisch bindende overeenkomsten met het World Economic Forum' - De Dagelijkse Standaard


    In Dutch, but the bit above is a Google Translate translation.


    Do you think a government of a democratic nation should be entering into agreements with an unelected organisation? And not consulting its own people before entering into such agreements? The only reason it was revealed is because an MP asked the government. But your logic is that that is not possible because somebody in government would have said something about the agreements.


    And the issue isn't whether or not you think those initiatives are good ones. The issue is a government of a democratic nation entering into agreements without consulting the people first.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You're missing my point. I'm saying that it doesn't have be tens of thousands of people. It could be a small number of people. I'm not saying that that is what is happening with covid. I'm saying that it's possible for a small number of people to agree on something and not say anything about it. As it appears happened in the case of the Dutch Government and WEF. The small number of people being the people that make up the Government.



  • Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭brianhere


    I see in the Irish Independent that Dr Holohan is asking people to 'flatten the curve' and there and elsewhere they are saying it is just 30 days of sacrifice etc.

    At this stage, for me anyway, the question has to seriously be asked of all Irish people, squarely and directly.

    How gullible are you?

    Yes governments, and big pharmaceutical companies lie to and manipulate people all the time, and no, that is only common sense, not a 'conspiracy theory'.

    But anyway on a hopefully interesting twist I thought I would point out another example of where a temporary emergency measure was to prove anything but.


    Quit Rent

    Quit rent is a recognised phrase in ancient English land law (liberi redditus), and the phrase means that you would pay this rent to the crown on freehold land, in a sense 'quitted' of previous encumbrances. As you get into the early modern period it is a phrase usually applied to a tax on land given out as a grant by the King, typically in this country land confiscated from Irish Catholics and given to English Protestants, such as for example the confiscated monasteries in Ireland.(1) Then it applied to the state tax levied on Irish land confiscated under the Cromwellian plantation of the 1650s, the excuse been the much hyped, by the media, supposed, massacre of the Irish rebellion of 1641.

    Specifically Cromwell paid off the 'Adventurers', people who had lent money to the state on the security of Irish land, actually before the 1641 rebellion, the '1649 officers', in other words back pay owed to the Cromwellian army in Ireland, and other Cromwellian and later Royal favourites, with these lands and with these Quit Rents attached. The initial Quit Rent rate was 18 pence in a 240 pence pound of the estimated annual revenue of the lands, so approximately 7.5%, yielding at first 3,072 pounds to the state (2) and rising to about 50,840 pounds in the 18th century.(3)

    Of course there was nothing very permanent about Cromwell's, and his son's, reign and so when the Stuarts came back the assumption was that these lands would be restored to the Irish and that the tax would lapse simultaneously. However the Irish were to discover that what the state pinches it never gives back and so Charles II retained and codified these quit rents in a proclamation he issued in 1661: Proclamation requiring the payment of rents, quit rents and other moneys due to the Crown, August 15th 1661.(4) There the following rents on these escheated lands was set at, per English statute acre per year in pence: Leinster 3, Munster 2¼, Ulster 2, Connaught 1½.

    So would anybody like to guess when it ended? When does the state give back its right to levy that tax, which it only levied in the emergency atmosphere at the end of the Cromwellian wars?

    I don't know exactly but I think with the abolition of the Land Commission in 1999. Certainly it was still collected and in force by 1971 in both jurisdictions, the North and the Republic.

    In the North in that year Rafton Pounder asked if Quit Rents were to be abolished in Northern Ireland, the answer was from Patrick Jenkin:

    "No, but I am advised that the Crown Estate Commissioners, who are responsible for collecting these rents, are willing to discuss any problems which exist in connection with them, including whether the repeal of obsolete legislation could be achieved without prejudicing the collection of outstanding quit rents."(5)

    In the South, where the Quit Rent Office existed at 3 Lower Ormond Quay "down to about the 1950s",(6) they later collected it as an office of the Land Commission and paid it to the Irish state:(7)

    "Some £10,000 in respect of approximately 4,280 tithe rent and other charges, together with £900 in respect of approximately 500 quit rent accounts, is collectable annually by the Church Temporalities Branch and Quit Rent Office of the Land Commission."(8)


    Footnotes

    1. See for example Calendar of the State Papers relating to Ireland, 1608-1610 (London, 1874), p.448.

    2. Kevin McKenny, A 17th century "real estate company": the 1649 officers and the Irish land settlements (Maynooth, 1989), p.234.

    3. Gorges Edmond Howard, A treatise of the Exchequer and revenue of Ireland (Dublin 1776) vol i, p.43.

    4. James Kelly and Marion Lyons, Proclamations of Ireland (Dublin, 2014) vol i, p.41. This reference was not consulted but indirectly researched.

    5. Irish Press 27/1/1971, p.7.

    6. Evening Herald 13/11/1974, p.9.

    7. Since 1926, see Irish Independent 23/6/1926, p.5.

    8.  https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1971-04-20/45/ , mentioned in the Cork Examiner 21/4/1971, p.10.

    Post edited by brianhere on

    http://www.orwellianireland.com



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Conveniently omitting that they reference the great reset in the first paragraph... On top of that they're known for spreading stories that aren't factual. Care to point to a more credible source?




    Except your source is questionable.. On top of that, even the likes of Bilderberg is not the most secretive depending on the attending dignitary. Eg an FOI request revealed the entire agenda of the event a few years back. It was pretty dull.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




This discussion has been closed.
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