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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭bokale


    I naively thought that kind of stuff was all behind us. Ugh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,973 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Its at fault for us staying under restrictions the whole year though. I think restrictions now would be more tolerable if we had non restricted times this year and knew we'd have non restricted times in the future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Worse than NOTHING.

    Why would the HSE's OWN report in 2009 set out clear unambiguous requirements and targets regarding Critical Care and ICU requirements for the country if,AT THAT JUNCTURE it was'nt already an urgent requirement ?

    These people had 11 YEARS before Covid arrived,and in those 11 years of constantly expanding funding,they decided to do NOTHING !

    Is nobody in your world now allowed to ask WHY ? or seek an explanation as to WHY action was NOT sanctioned then,and WHO took the decisions to do NOTHING back then ?

    As you said,"It takes along time"....how damn "long" do you want ? 5,10,15.....ah sure why not say 1,000 years,and then sit back and watch the current HSE crew "start work" on ensuring whatever target you pick will indeed become a MULTI-MULTI-MULTI Year plan,with only those involved in the Planning Disciplines seeing any reward,as the Professional Fees & Charges,and Consultancy Work renumeration head towards the next galaxy.

    To sit there in December 2021, and type that our Current Government have STARTED WORK on (yet another) multi-year plan quite simply shows a reality short-circuit of incredible proportions.

    People will,eventually wake up from the current well planned and instituted Torpor,and start asking the questions which have lain unasked for nearly 20 years.

    If these remain unasked & unanswered,then forget about regaining any form of normality,and we can continue as we generally prefer...as sure'n it could be worse ! 😰


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,973 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Hmm, Germany and Austria have mandated ffp2 masks for ages now. Their case counts don't really say much for them working tbh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,519 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Shockingly late with the booster roll out. Ireland done great to be fair, but can you imagine some of the Eastern European countries and even worse the USA if this thing turns out bad.

    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,610 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    They already have this in place via surge capacity and private hospital capacity, those with COVID won't go untreated.

    The problem is that to use that capacity (as it's an emergency system) they need to stop other health treatments, which means lockdowns and restrictions, so it's not like it comes for free.

    There is also the problem of what the correct capacity is, if we were at the same capacity as, say, Germany, it would still get stretched by COVID and cause restrictions come in, unless you run all the time at +30% and pay for that, when 97 years out of a century, it goes unneeded.

    The other aspect is that Ireland has done particularly well economically compared to most countries, despite restrictions, the PUP and measures cost a lot, but our high GDP growth masks it and is less proportionately than other countries (so the ECB will manage printing of money, but Ireland stays in relatively good health compared to others who've had to spend comparatively more during the pandemic), while we give out, rightly, about restrictions, we're also best placed to take advantage post pandemic, so why would politicians put that at risk (assuming things are back to normality by next election, which isn't a given). The macro view of everything is quite interesting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    Fair points. I think Omicron all but guarantees that things will be back to normal by the next election. It's so ultra-contagious that, whether it's as severe as Delta or not, it will have swept the country in short order. So we will either have endemic Covid with lots of additional deaths or endemic covid with few additional deaths.

    I think (sincerely - I'm not being glib) that a lot of people are going to need some support to move from pandemic covid to endemic covid, because the immense propaganda over the last two years has created a "stop all deaths from covid in particular at ANY cost" outlook in some people, as well as the pernicious idea that it is right to attribute "fault" in the passing of communicable disease. Which is not their fault, but people are always going to be dying of covid (even if Omicron is a "common cold" as the most optimistic assessments seem to suggest - plenty of people die from pneumonia after a common cold every year).

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,819 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    There are many many things the health experts would probably do differently or phrase things better with the benefit of hindsight, but the one thing I think could have helped ward off the current and justified anger many are feeling is if they hadn’t made the vaccine(not including the booster) as the silver bullet and made it sound like once the vaccine was rolled out, we’d get back to normal. The fact there’s now boosters needed(boosters aren’t unique to covid vaccines) and people aren’t seeing the return to normal, they are questioning of the whole vaccine strategy which will hurt our way out of this, because people will ask why should they bother.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Allinall




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    But MilkyToast, they (nphet) don't want any covid deaths. So even when it's endemic they'll still be hugely concerned. They were hugelt concerned last summer when practically no one as dying of a covid-related death.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yes, exactly. Never ever addressed by those who swear by the things.



  • Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink




  • Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭Captain Barnacles


    Cases going down in Holland for awhile now and yet they still add the lockdown ... crazy



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    I don’t know anyone who’s angry or questioning anything.

    I find it’s the more educated Irish Times fair trade woke types who are particularly nasty and obnoxious.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,819 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    So Holland will go into lockdown from Sunday until January 14th and Paris is cancelling its New Year’s Eve fireworks display presumably to stop people from gathering in large crowds in that city. It’s a shame that things seem to be sliding backwards but it’s not a total shock either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,819 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Well frustration then if that’s more an appropriate word. You can’t deny people are frustrated and fed up over this whole thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,788 ✭✭✭PsychoPete


    I passed the local pub at 5 this evening and the place was hopping, it was absolutely infuriating to not be there with them



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭Mr. Karate


    Apparently Pfizer are saying this can last until 2024.

    Two more years to flatten the curve. #HoldTheLine., #We'reAllInThisTogether



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,070 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭Mr. Karate


    You have a better source than that? Wikipedia anybody can log in and write anything.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭Mr. Karate


    You'd think Macron would be treading lightly with this nonsense since he's up for re-election next year and Le Pen is on his heels. Plus he had two near escapes from the Yellow Vesters getting their hands on him previously.



  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭MarkHenderson




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,519 ✭✭✭brickster69


    A very interesting debate between the editor of the Spectator and a SAGE model guy. **** me !


    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    We're all very impressed with you.

    The link to the Reuters article is the fourth line in the GP article.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭Mr. Karate


    Oh No. I might get a cold. Whatever will I do?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,070 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    Sorry for bursting your bubble that you and the OP dumping that crap here lap up anything without any critical thinking.

    Think it's important other users reading these posts understand where this stuff comes from.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,864 ✭✭✭acequion


    You are completely deluding yourself if you think that Tony Holohan doesn't have a lot of power. Or is your interpretation of power a narrow one related only to the power bestowed by elections? There are many sources of power, the media and social media being one of the most potent. Look at how he uses Twitter, how he guest appears wherever possible, how he has God like status in many Irish homes in spite of or perhaps because he is outside Government. And as CMO he is an authority figure and there is still an enormous degree of subservience to authority in this country. That old sense of the boss knows best and don't dare question.

    And yes you're right that the chief goal of politicians is to get re elected. In order to continue their cushy lifestyle. Therefore many will be in a bind over how to play this. Many, deep down, resent the power [a massive psychological power] that TH has over the Government and many, deep down, don't agree with this constant abundance of caution. But they'll play safe, they won't defy their party whip and let's not forget that a great many people support these restrictions, though less and less as time goes on.And unfortunately there are those who benefit from the restrictions and they're all voters too.And finally, let's not forget the power of group think and how politicians operate in their own little bubble where conformity rules the day, especially nowadays. So when he weighs it all up Johnny politician reckons he's far better off toeing the line and back slapping the friends in high places.



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    Well it is literally from Reuters, so I'm not entirely sure what your point is.

    You don't like Gateway Pundit? Fair enough. It has a pretty extreme bias.

    But you're so utterly disabled by your aversion that you have to retire to the fainting couch before you get four lines in and find the link to the source?

    Spare me.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



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  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭MarkHenderson


    Covid is not a cold but you already know that. 6 million plus dead worldwide thus far would confirm that.



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