2 Years Disqualification for Having No Insurance

denge_azadi · 20-12-2021 12:57am #1

Hi everyone,

One of my friend need serious advice.

My friend has recently been disqualified for 2 years and fine €450 for having no insurance. He did appeal, but the judge has ignored all documents and special circumstances. My friend has no previous conviction, penalty points or any criminal records.

He is working from home and taking her daughter to creche 5 days a week and brings her back while he is working. He does it with his car. So, he can turn back to home quickly and continue working.

Next year, his daughter will be starting to primary school and his son will be in creche. Primary school and creches are in different areas and no idea which one will be accepting kids. As a result of this it is going to take more time to take them to primary school and creche next year and after comparing this academic year.

Also, both kids are in the waiting list for Children's Disability Service. Waiting more around 1.5 years in the waiting list. So, on top of that mentioned above, my friend needs to take both of his kids for treatment, education, assessment for a period of time once it is their turn in the waiting list. He was thinking to take both kids for treatment by his car.

He is suffering from sciatica since many years and he can't manage without his car (Taking kids to creche, disability service, hospital appointments, shopping, etc while working).

His wife has no driving licence and also suffering heavy varicose vein disease on both of her legs. Walking and standing on cold weather makes her health condition very difficult.

My friend provided document from GP about his sciatica, documents received from Children's Disability Service, document from creche (that he is taking her child to creche all the time).

Also, he will be moving out of Dublin to reduce rental cost by end of January as the rental agreement will end and more likely will turn to office for work in the first quarter.

He is done the insurance around 1 hour after Gardai stopped him and there was around 13 days gap without insurance. He said that he did unintentionally drove the car without insurance. Same day (2 hours after Gardai stopped) his parents were arriving to Ireland from abroad and he just wanted to get some vegetables from city centre (15 minutes away from home) after pregnant wife asked for small shopping.

He forgot to renew the insurance as having small memory issue (Due to heavy work load, hard training at work, long travel to work, sleepless nights as the wife is 8.5 months pregnant and hyperactive daughter with some complications/issue.

However, judge has ignored everything from the beginning about all the circumstances. Judge said that he can use bus or Luas for everything. Ignored everything he or the barrister said. Also, added that all things mentioned above are not special circumstances.

So, considering all this, he will be in a very difficult situation. To be honest actually I am shocked that judge.

Myself and many other friends hear with our own ears and saw with our own eyes that many times judges have avoided giving disqualification for so many people that had same or similar situation as my friend.

Is it possible for him to appeal once again or there is no chance of removing the disqualification?

I would be delightful if you could advice on this.

Thank you.

GoodMonson · 20-12-2021 1:02am

Your friend should have gotten insurance if they rely so much on the car.

denge_azadi · 20-12-2021 1:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349819#Comment_118349819

I totally agree, however, at the end of the day we are all human being.

Some people doing mistake with an intention and some not.

Updated post above. Please have a look at it. Added the reason why he forgot to do insurance.

The week that Gardai stopped him, he was not working that week and he has not remembered that the insurance was run out.

MrMusician18 · 20-12-2021 1:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349835#Comment_118349835

My advice is more for you than your friend tbh. The issues he's having are really for him to solve and no one else so I'd steer clear of involving yourself in his affairs. His solicitor will advise him on the next steps and if an appeal is worthwhile.

Not much more to be said.

wotzgoingon · 20-12-2021 1:25am

Was this Fabu D. he is another person like your friend who thinks they can drive around without insurance and was caught. As above if your friend needs his car so much why did he drive around without insurance.

I don't know why you came here asking for help as nobody can help you. He needs to speak to a solicitor about what to do but being 100% honest with you I doubt he will win the appeal.

Atlantic Dawn · 20-12-2021 1:28am

He is done the insurance around 1 hour after Gardai stopped him and there was around 13 days gap without insurance. He said that he did unintentionally drove the car without insurance. Same day (2 hours after Gardai stopped) his parents were arriving to Ireland from abroad and he just wanted to get some vegetables from city centre (15 minutes away from home) after pregnant wife asked for small shopping.

He forgot to renew the insurance as having small memory issue (Due to heavy work load, hard training at work, long travel to work, sleepless nights as the wife is 8.5 months pregnant and hyperactive daughter with some complications/issue.

So did Gardai stop him once or twice on the same day driving with no insurance, your post is not clear.

denge_azadi · 20-12-2021 1:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349862#Comment_118349862

Sorry about being unclear. Gardai stopped him only once.

GSBellew · 20-12-2021 1:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349852#Comment_118349852

I think he already appealed, not completely clear, but OP says: "He did appeal, but the judge has ignored all documents and special circumstances."

The fine is not the maximum, so perhaps that was the leniency for circumstances that the judge allowed.

Don't think he can appeal again unless its on a point of law?

chuck eastwood · 20-12-2021 1:39am

Tis a tough situation but I could give you a similar list of issues we have but we also know the law a your friend did. I was ploughed into by an uninsured driver about ten years ago shattering my pelvis. I got nothing in the way of compensation because the driver had no insurance or means to pay my bills which were substantial. Long story short he knew the deal and his family will suffer but hopefully not as much as mine when I was hit by someone who didn't pay his insurance. I also don't believe for a second his insurance was just out and the judge nailed him like that. Something decidedly off here

Jequ0n · 20-12-2021 3:53am

Your post offers one excuse after the other, and each is as meaningless as the previous one.

How long was he really driving around while uninsured?

Atlantic Dawn · 20-12-2021 3:56am

Fine for no insurance can go to €5000, be careful what he is appealing to, if he doesn't have access to €5k he will only frustrate the judge with an appeal if he is offered this easy escape.

Westport Covies · 20-12-2021 4:00am

The wife needs to get herself a licence. The husband seems to be creaking under the pressure.

Atlantic Dawn · 20-12-2021 4:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349963#Comment_118349963

He also should write a book on how to keep making kids if you have sciatica for years.

MakersMark · 20-12-2021 5:24am

Sell the car.

Use the money for taxis.

CramCycle · 20-12-2021 5:59am

13 days without insurance? In this day and age, most insurers auto renew, send out letters long before hand. Your friend, realistically, had to choose to forget in the modern world. Your friend is lying to you. If it had genuinely been the two hours, he might have had a chance with the judge but reading your story, all I can think is that he was lucky it wasn't a heavier punishment. If a car is truly essential, make friends with a local taxi company and see can you negotiate a price for repeat business every day. Once you factor in insurance, tax and fuel, he will still be down but it might be doable for awhile.

Dempo1 · 20-12-2021 6:59am

My only surprise being honest is the OP"S friend able to physically drive with the list of Ailments mentioned.

Whilst I sympathise, it is what it is I'm afraid, there is no discretion when it comes to driving with no insurance.

Tow · 20-12-2021 7:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349862#Comment_118349862

He both works from home and is tired from long travel to work 🤨

I don't think the OP is too sure them selves.

In any event he should have renewed his car insurance on time.

rolling boh · 20-12-2021 7:23am

Would say he has no choice but to put up with the ban unfortunately it will proberly hit his renewal when the time does come to start up again .

mickuhaha · 20-12-2021 7:27am

What was the original sentence before the appeal?

whippet · 20-12-2021 7:29am

I didn’t think it was possible to ‘forget to do insurance’ when it was a renewal - if you actually forgot it would have auto renewed .. unless it was cancelled.

Unfortunately none of the mitigating circumstances that you have put forward are an excuse for driving with no insurance.

magicbastarder · 20-12-2021 7:43am

My insurance cannot auto-renew, because I paid it by card. I do get reminders though.

Based on the OP though, I would have sympathy for the chap in question. You could deliberately run down a pedestrian and claim the sun was in your eyes and not lose your licence, but if he has it removed for being 13 days without insurance, that's harsh.

denge_azadi · 20-12-2021 10:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349956#Comment_118349956

He did drive only raughly 5 minutes since insurance was run out (according to his calculation) and gardai stopped.

denge_azadi · 20-12-2021 10:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118350051#Comment_118350051

It was same €450 fine and 2 year disqualification. No change was made on appeal.

PGE1970 · 20-12-2021 10:34am

For a first offence, a judge has discretion not to impose a disqualification. It is mandatory for a further offence.

Both the District Court Judge and Circuit Court Judge were not moved by either of the submission made by the solicitor/barrister. I find this strange given what you have said about the family circumstances, health issues, no crash or damage involved etc

I do wonder if there is a previous conviction that you are unaware of?

In short, there is no further appeal unless on a point off law which is highly unlikely is a case as straight forward as no insurance.

whippet · 20-12-2021 10:37am

it's amazing how many people get stopped in the day or so when not being insured ... just like how many people get caught the very first time they drink drive.

denge_azadi · 20-12-2021 10:38am

I see some replys are really harsh and far from sympathy.

1- He had no insurance only 13 days and he did drive only 5 minutes without insurance but he was not aware that insurance was run out.

2- No previous convictions or criminal issue in the past.

3- Holding 3 years no claim bonus.

4- He is having health issue (Sciatica). Myself I know that many times he could not even get up from his bed at least 2-3 weeks each time as sciatica got worse. People who knows Sciatica would know what I mean.

5- I saw and heard with my own eyes & ears in the court that judge did not disqualify anyone who is in same or similar situation. Only €450 fine.

6- Plus he has reasons why he need car.

Isn't it very harsh decision done by judge?

This is going to affect his family's daily life specifically kids and furthermore he can even leave his job if things get worse.

20-12-2021 10:43am

I don’t think I’ve ever heard such shite.. his wife has varicose veins and therefore can’t drive?

but he has sciatica and needs his car, so much so he can let insurance renewal slip his mind?

just for comparisons sake, my aul lad has sciatica and can hardly walk, he drives everywhere and has told me before, if he needs to go to the supermarket just to use an example, he’ll drive and once he’s in the car park, cuts the engine and starts planning.

what he’s planning is the fastest way around the shop for the things he needs to get as well as the expected price and whether it’s gonna be faster to use cash or card, cos once he steps out of the car the timer starts ticking for the pain in his back to explode.

now, would you expect he’d forget about his insurance? Between work, chiropractor, GP, shopping, he has kids with the step mother so there’s school runs to do etc

basically just like your friend he has a lot of responsibilities that without question he couldn’t do without his car. And between all of that, as much stress and worry and whatever else he might feel on a daily, if not minute by minute basis, he’s NEVER let his insurance lap.

now look maybe you’re friends being 100% honest with you - but I find it a tough pill to swallow that someone who’s life depends on having a car would just let insurance slip their mind for nearly 2 weeks? Yeah..

as for insuring the car within an hour of the Garda stopping him, if true, I mean of course he did because it makes his “im so sorry I forgot” story seem more plausible.

Jequ0n · 20-12-2021 10:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118350568#Comment_118350568

To his calculations? What does that even mean? Was he now driving 13 days without insurance or 5 minutes?

His circumstances are totally irrelevant. The fact that his family’s life is now more complicated is his own problem and fault, there is no need for sympathy.

The whole story doesn’t add up and both you and your friend know this.

JoChervil · 20-12-2021 10:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118350568#Comment_118350568

So was it 13 days or 5 minutes?

I think he did double offence picking his parents from the airport. Otherwise why did you mentioned about it and about doing this small shopping for a pregnant wife? Not relevant at all in that case.

EDIT after reading your reply,

1- He had no insurance only 13 days and he did drive only 5 minutes without insurance but he was not aware that insurance was run out.

So he doesn't need his car so much, if he only drove for 5 minutes during these 13 days

wench · 20-12-2021 10:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118350689#Comment_118350689

So a car is vital to his every day life, but he'd only driven 5 minutes in two weeks?

The Guards must have been sitting outside his driveway to catch him.

20-12-2021 10:55am

There's something missing from this story.

I don't think your friend is being entirely honest with you, OP. He's definitely leaving something out.

SteM · 20-12-2021 10:57am

Our insurance is up in mid January and we've had 2 reminders already in the last 10 days with updated renewal costs. I expect at least 1 more reminder before the renewal date. It's really hard to forget to renew imo.

mickuhaha · 20-12-2021 1:52pm

It seems that unless a past offense was made, the most likely reason he was disqualified was based on not being able to provide a special reason that the judge found reasonable enough, not to impose a disqualification. The comment made by the judge about bus and Luas seems to indicate this to be the situation. The judge will evaluate your current use of the vehicle and lifestyle and not your prediction of how it may change. He will have to come up with a plan for life to exclude a car for two years.

Tell me how · 20-12-2021 2:17pm

Your friend doesn't need a car as much as they think they do if they only needed it for 5 minutes in 13 days.

Advice?

Tell his wife to get a license. As an aside, and I'm not joking, but I have ongoing and troublesome sciatica type pain for a long time but I have gotten on top of it now so that it rarely gives me trouble. The solution? Cycling regularly.

Also, your friend can expect to have pretty hefty insurance bills for the next few years given he won't have had a policy for 2 years and will have this on his record.

It will take some effort and planning but if their wife gets a license, if they get a bike and use public transport where possible and if they schedule their shopping or use delivery services appropriately, they can most definitely cope with this and actually might find there are some positives around it. I'm not saying it will be perfect, but it's not the end of the world either.

ELM327 · 20-12-2021 2:19pm

No sympathy. No insurance is a very serious matter. If I were the judge I'd have given jail time

GM228 · 20-12-2021 4:45pm

Special reasons for not imposing a consequential disqualification order must be a reason which is unique and rare, both employment status and health is not unique or rare, prior to 2016 employment circumstances or even mental health were considered, but that is no longer the case since the 2016 DPP vs Shillington [2016] IECA 289 Cour of Appeal case.

coylemj · 20-12-2021 5:13pm

OP, your friend was convicted in the District Court. You told us that he appealed so that would have involved the whole case getting a do over in the Circuit Court. Where the judge had discretion to overturn the conviction or to reject the appeal and affirm the conviction. If the appeal fails and the conviction stands, the circuit court judge can increase or reduce the sentence. In your friend's case, the judge heard all the pleadings but upheld the original sentence. The judge didn't really have any discretion with the actual conviction as nobody is claiming that your friend was insured on the day. So the only takeaway possible was a reduction in the sentence. Which the judge refused to grant.

As has already been pointed out by other posters, your friend's legal options are simple, there are none. Short of going to the High Court on an exceptional point of law (not his sympathy case), he can take this no further. To repeat, too harsh a sentence are not grounds for such a case, your friend had his opportunity to get relief on the sentence in the Circuit Court and lost. So we can pour you a cup of tea and shower you with sympathy but you'll achieve nothing with this thread.

2 Years Disqualification for Having No Insurance

Comments