Novavax and the lack of Vaccine Choice

Vic987 · 31-08-2021 1:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786708#Comment_117786708

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787042#Comment_117787042

So you encouraged your child to take an vaccine that they didn't need and which is under conditional marketing, uses an experimental technology and has no medium or long term data on safety/efficacy to protect others. You're some hero!

Vic987 · 31-08-2021 1:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117788191#Comment_117788191

For anybody who ever wondered why the Church held so much power in Ireland for so long I think recent events have shown how that happened. We Irish revel in being best in class and need to be part of the herd. An added bonus is having reprobates to look down on. I loved the glee earlier in the summer when my age cohort were being vaccinated and all were delighted to virtue signal by sharing their medical details.

But, instead of going to hell, sinners like myself are going to ICU to take a real sick person's bed or else planning to kill our grannies.

aidoh · 31-08-2021 3:20pm

I managed to get an appointment sorted for this Friday by cold-calling a few pharmacies in my area.

All of them bar one weren't doing viral vectors anymore.

If anyone's in the same boat as me, pick up the phone and chance your arm.

daydorunrun · 02-09-2021 7:28pm

Got J&J vaccine today in Boots, Nutgrove. Steady steam of people getting it. Not much stock left I was told- really only getting it to help the overall percentage in order to allow the country open up fully.

Bass Reeves · 02-09-2021 10:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839348#Comment_117839348

Ah that great we will have a medal ceremony for you Sunday morning at 6.30am at the back gate if Croke Park

daydorunrun · 03-09-2021 9:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840017#Comment_117840017

Why the snide attitude? Everybody has taken the vaccine for there own reasons, fear of getting sick, vulnerable relatives or the reason I gave- getting the overall vaccination numbers as high as possible before opening up. I was being called selfish for not taking the first vaccine I was offered and now I'm some kind of glory hunter for stating my reasoning for seeking out and taking this one 🙄

Danno · 03-09-2021 10:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840852#Comment_117840852

Just like the bishops of old, smug and arrogant.

scouserstation · 20-12-2021 8:41pm

I see this was approved today, hopefully will be available here soon as due a booster and would prefer taking this to the pfizer or moderna vaccines

NaFirinne · 21-12-2021 12:14am

If vaccines were going to lead the country to re-open. It would have been re-opened already.

Shilock · 21-12-2021 12:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353403#Comment_118353403

is this a more traditional vaccine than the mRNA, as I've few vaccine hesitant friends who are waiting for something other than mRNA gene therapy. I took the gene therapy, in a way I wish I hadn't and held out for a live attenuated vaccine. I just have a feeling I made the wrong choice. The live attenuated vaccines are around for years, there's no telling about the long term impact of the mRNA gene therapy.

random_banter · 21-12-2021 1:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118354438#Comment_118354438

I can’t comment on your choice of vaccine, but to answer your question, yes this is different, closer to a “traditional” type although not exactly the same. More here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/20/approval-new-covid-jab-germany-unvaccinated-novavax-nuvaxovid

This is good news for those who can’t take mRNA for medical reasons. the fact the govt isn’t providing an alternative to those people is scandalous.

There will always be those who choose not to get it. Their choice, IMO.

And speaking of choice, more choice in vaccines is a good thing, it reduces mistrust in the system. There’s a fair few people I’ve met who are questioning if Pfizer are running our country now since that’s all we seem to have on order (while we use remaining stock of Moderna). More variety means people feel more in control of their choices. The less reason to make up conspiracy theories, the better.

Wibbs · 21-12-2021 10:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118354438#Comment_118354438

Just a point. the mRNA vaccines are not gene therapy. They don't change the DNA in your cell, which is what gene therapy would do. They are a gene based therapy, that instructs your immune cells to make antibodies based on the instructions in the vaccine. Quite a different thing. I personally chose to avoid the mRNA based vaccines because of the history of that medical tech and rushed into service timeline and instead chose the viral vector type, but not because the mRNA vaccines are "gene therapy".

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118354579#Comment_118354579

I very much agree with this. Again personally speaking, would I take a booster of J&J? Yep, no problem, jab me up. I won't take a Pfizer and especially not a Moderna booster. And I doubt I'm alone in this. Actually I know three vaccinated people who feel the same. I would have no issue with paying for my booster either.

Former Former Former · 21-12-2021 10:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118354579#Comment_118354579

This is good news for those who can’t take mRNA for medical reasons. the fact the govt isn’t providing an alternative to those people is scandalous.

Genuine question, who cannot take mRNA vaccines for medical reasons? I'm not aware of any significant exclusions?

Danno · 21-12-2021 10:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355045#Comment_118355045

What are your thoughts on getting Novavax as a booster to compliment your J&J in the following situations:

Hold off getting a booster until we had J&J stock back even if Novavax was available
Hold off getting a booster until we had Novavax stock in even if J&J was available
Take the first booster that came along - either J&J or Novavax

Would it bother you to mix and match? If not - would you take AZ or any others (excluding mRNA's)?

Just interested in people's thoughts on this.

Danno · 21-12-2021 10:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355091#Comment_118355091

There are a few out there that develop reactions to the ingredients used in the mRNA shots.

Similarly - people can develop reactions to the ingredients used in J&J and AZ.

Shilock · 21-12-2021 10:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355045#Comment_118355045

Thanks for letting me know how these vaccines work, sometimes I get confused with all the different emotionally charged opinions and comments. You're able to simplify it in lay terms.

Thanks for clearing that and explaining in a way a jack of all trades and master of none guy like myself can absorb it, and it makes sense.

20 Euro for a booster is a drop in the ocean and it's good to have a choice in what you want rather than being told what you need.

PeadarCo · 21-12-2021 10:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355045#Comment_118355045

The thing is the vaccines haven't been rushed. They just have a huge amount of money thrown at them. A good comparison is the moon landing in the 1960s/70s compared to the present day US moon programme. The US went from 0 space flight experience to moon landing in less than 10 years. Where as today the current Artimes programme has dragged on for years despite far better technology and experience of space flight in general. The big difference is money. The Apollo programme received far far more money than the current programme.

In the case of Pfizer they could run certain sections of the trials concurrently because of the financial incentive. It's not unusual for drugs to fail during testing and each trial costs money. For most drugs its not worth it financially to run trials concurrently due to the costs of failure.

MRNA vaccines and technology behind it has been researched for 50 odd years so It's not new or unheard of. The Covid virus is RNA. So again it's not something that's new to science even if the specific virus is. Also the current vaccines are some of the most tested ever. We have hundreds of millions of doses administered at this stage and scientists and health care professionals worldwide are reviewing the real world impact of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. Unless you think all these thousands of different people are all collectively lying about the side effects of the vaccine. We know the side effects of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines and we know the side effects of Covid. Its obvious which has the more risky long term side effects.

Former Former Former · 21-12-2021 11:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355110#Comment_118355110

Well yeah, you will always get hypersensitivity reactions but the numbers would be absolutely tiny. That's nothing to do with the mRNA.

Wibbs · 21-12-2021 11:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355095#Comment_118355095

I'd prefer a second J&J. There have been studies done on that, so it's a known thing. Novavax wouldn't be.

That said I can see boosters becoming somewhat moot for the general population because of the spread of omricon. As it stands currently I don't know anybody in my circle who doesn't know someone who has had it, or has it themselves. It seems to be everywhere. I've certainly been exposed to it twice in the last week. No symptoms, but am awaiting a test result. I'd be surprised if I didn't get a positive. All who have had it report either a couple of days feeling meh/slight headcold, or postive but asymptomatic. That includes two unvaccinated types, both had two to three day headcolds with added fatigue on one of the days. All those positives are "boosted" now for at least six months.

L1011 · 21-12-2021 11:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355267#Comment_118355267

There's also studies showing that J&J, even boosted, has exceptionally poor response to Omicron. It'd be approaching pointless.

Danno · 21-12-2021 11:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355267#Comment_118355267

Lets hope so - though I've a feeling that the boosters will remain a thing because countries have bought them up and will want to use them regardless. Perhaps that is why western nations in particular are gung ho about Omicron's severity despite South Africa saying it's not as severe.

Wibbs · 21-12-2021 11:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355257#Comment_118355257

MRNA vaccines and technology behind it has been researched for 50 odd years so It's not new or unheard of. The Covid virus is RNA. So again it's not something that's new to science even if the specific virus is.

The fact that coronaviruses are RNA based has feck all, if anything to do with mRNA technology. RNA viruses use their RNA to reproduce by hijacking the DNA in the host cells. mRNA vaccines use RNA to instruct cells to produce the protein spike on their surface which causes an immune reaction against that, but do not hijack your DNA to do it.

The mRNA tech has been worked on for decades, but to little result and a lot of dead ends, including trials stopped at animal models because it was considered too risky to go to human trials. The only mRNA commercial products licenced after all those decades of research? The covid vaccines.

Also the current vaccines are some of the most tested ever. We have hundreds of millions of doses administered at this stage and scientists and health care professionals worldwide are reviewing the real world impact of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. Unless you think all these thousands of different people are all collectively lying about the side effects of the vaccine.

No need to wheel out any conspiracy stuff. The plain fact is this; no matter how much you test, you cannot make long term predictions on short term results. If I light a ten minute fuse on a bomb, I can claim with 100% accuracy that I'm grand at eight minutes. If I light ten minute fuses on a million bombs I can still claim with 100% accuracy I'm grand at eight minutes. You can guess and you can make it an informed guess, but you can't predict the future. Especially if a population is having to get boosters every six months and is mixing and matching different products.

Now do I think the mRNA class of vaccines will cause lots of longer term side effects in many people? I doubt it, but the data is not in yet and because of that and the tangled history of this medical technology I personally chose a non mRNA based vaccine. Simple as that. I'm not anti vaccination. The very opposite in fact.

We know the side effects of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines and we know the side effects of Covid. Its obvious which has the more risky long term side effects.

All the vaccines were and remain extremely good at preventing serious illness and death especially in the vulnerable. They have been a game changer there. However they're far less effective at reducing spread and transmission. Still better than nothing and doubly so considering the speed we got them out there, but better vaccines are needed. And again because of short term data, we know neither the long term effects of covid or the vaccines. Again we can guess, but it remains a guess. Some data appears to be in, like length of protection given. It seems catching and surviving covid gives better protection than the vaccines(though I would NOT suggest that as a strategy). The HSE booster advice reflects this. Positive to covid? Wait six months for booster. Vaccinated? Wait three months for booster.

Wibbs · 21-12-2021 11:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355273#Comment_118355273

Maybe try reading beyond the headlines. Again there is this obsession with antibody response. Yep J&J shows little response to omicron in the antibody level(as do the others minus a booster), however in South Africa where half a milllion healthcare workers received the J&J not one has died after infection with omricon. So it seems - and this goes for all the vaccines pre booster - that infection with Omicron is indeed much more likely because of both falling antibody numbers and vaccine escape by the variant, but serious illness and death protection remains very high.

L1011 · 21-12-2021 11:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355432#Comment_118355432

I think you may be correlating a generally less fatal variant with some form of protection there.

I wouldn't be happy with the State funding any more J&J at this stage.

breezy1985 · 21-12-2021 11:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117827778#Comment_117827778

The dismay, outrage and deep hurt currently being felt by conspiracy theorists in Ireland because it turns out we are actually not a bunch of idiots wills to fall for BS loopy home made "science" and instead listened to genuinely educated people is a beautiful thing to watch.

At least you are aware enough to own up to the consequences in your last paragraph

Former Former Former · 21-12-2021 12:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355288#Comment_118355288

though I've a feeling that the boosters will remain a thing because countries have bought them up and will want to use them regardless

This is an odd take. It would be far cheaper and easier for the govt to simply throw the vaccines in the incinerator or donate to the developing world rather than spend millions upon millions dosing the population (and diverting hundreds of healthcare workers in the process).

Boosters will remain a thing because the nature of the virus demands it, not because the HSE is doing a clear-out of the stock room.

Wibbs · 21-12-2021 12:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355485#Comment_118355485

Nope I'm looking at the numbers. It also held against Delta over the initial 8 month trials(and beyond). As did the other vaccines. They all held pretty well against serious illness and death. Breakthrough infections and transmission much less so, because of dropping levels of neutralising antibodies. Immune memory cells on the other hand increased with time and indeed J&J ranked better on that score. It was a grower not a shower as it were.

And I 100% welcome the apparently much less fatal variant. If it turns out to be as mild as it so far seems to be there we have a booster rolled out to both the neurotic jab junkies and the neurotic antivaxxers courtesy of Mother Nature.

PeadarCo · 21-12-2021 12:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355382#Comment_118355382

Apologies for the conspiracy stuff but a lot of what you are saying in relation to the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines is trademark conspiracy theory.

You have no evidence that either vaccine is harmful long-term. We know Covid has negative long-term impacts ie long Covid. Again the requirement to be 100% certain is evidence of conspiracy theory. Scientists will never be 100% certain not today and not in 100 years of testing the current vaccines. You are asking for a level of certainty than can not and will never be given. You won't get that for any vaccine.

Yes medical companies have blackmarks against them. Thankfully with the level of scrutiny that pharmaceutical manufacturers face things are uncovered. Its one of the most heavily regulated industries out there both on the production/supply chain side and product development/life cycle side.

However we have administered hundreds of millions of doses of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines . All this is being reviewed by thousands of separate people most who will not be employed by the relevant manufacturer. If Pfizer and Moderna were really causing bad side effects why have they not said anything?

So if you think Pfizer and Moderna are unsafe where is your evidence? Absence of evidence is not evidence.

In terms of vaccine choice 2 points. One its very much a first world problem large parts of the world still don't have vaccines for a variety of reasons. Two this is the first time in human history that we have had vaccines as a tool during a pandemic caused by a new virus.

On the boosters themselves it's not unusual or unexpected. There are yearly flu vaccines. That's on top of the large number of vaccines a person receives through out a person's life and some of them being boosters. However if you argue boosters shouldn't be given you have to show the risks associated with the booster exceed the risks associated with getting Covid.

Lumen · 21-12-2021 12:29pm

Whatever about claims of being pro-vaccine, eloquent shitposting for months about imaginary long-term side effects of the two vaccines currently available in Ireland and promoting the efficacy of another that isn't currently available is in effect discouraging vaccination.

SEPT 23 1989 · 21-12-2021 12:47pm

when is this stuff hitting the streets?

Novavax and the lack of Vaccine Choice

Comments