Car sabotaged due to disagreement over parking space

In Actuality · 11-12-2021 10:09am #1

My place of work where I'm newly employed is located behind another business and we have right of way through their property. There is a long driveway in front of their business which leads out to the public road. I usually park in the spaces at the side of this driveway as instructed by my boss (due to lack of space in our own place). There is ample parking there always and I was parked very far from either business thought about who's property it was.

On Thursday of last week when I got out of my car, this fella from the other business, said "here bollocks, move your car". I decided to ignore him because of the way he addressed me. I was late so continued jogging off. He shouted that he was the owner. He followed me all the way down (150 yards) to where I work where he confronted and threatened me. I told him that the owner of my business said I could park there and that if he'd an issue then he could take it up with him. He then said "if you park there again I'll fcuking kill ya". Since then I began parking my car in the same spaces, but always as far away from their business as possible. There's always plenty of free spaces and people from the other businesses park there too.

On Monday evening when coming home from work my engine began to over-heat. Luckily for me I was about 50 yards from home. I noticed the engine coolant tank was empty and thought it might have been a leak in the radiator hose. I brought it to my mechanic after it cooled down and began using a different car. On Thursday my mechanic rang me to tell me that someone had definitely drilled a hole through the grill, and straight through the radiator and air-con fan.

I gave a statement to the guards Thursday night. How serious a crime would this be considered?

KaneToad · 11-12-2021 10:13am

It will be very hard to prove who did this. It would be criminal damage, I imagine.

osarusan · 11-12-2021 10:14am

Any cameras on the parking space?

In Actuality · 11-12-2021 10:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304528#Comment_118304528

Only the ones from his business. And I think they're too far away anyway.

11-12-2021 10:17am

Put a potato into his exhaust pipe

Dempo1 · 11-12-2021 10:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058222355/car-sabotaged-due-to-disagreement-over-parking-space

Mother of God has the world gone mad. This is outrageous 😳

Liveline dealing with road rage incidents all week and whilst not road rage as such, threatening to kill is an extremely serious matter. Re the damage, if proven, whilst not as serious as tampering with breaks etc, it's still a very serious matter , again if proven and deliberate criminal Damage at a minimum.

You've certainly done the right thing reporting this , I presume your mechanic is prepared to give a statement 🤔 , I'd also be hopeful Gardai have checked any possible CCTV,

Dare I say, this scumbag, likely known to Gardai given their disgraceful behaviour (IMO of course)

I certainly would not be letting this Go

listermint · 11-12-2021 10:21am

Extremely hard to prove which is why he did it. So net result is you'll move your car and he wins. Unless you get a movement dash cam Theres not alot you can do here.

ittakestwo · 13-12-2021 2:15am

Hmm. Although he had no right to act like this people do get very annoyed when others tresspass on their property. A right of way is not a right to park on somebody else's property. I would say if you stop trespassing the problem will go away.

Del2005 · 13-12-2021 2:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058222355/car-sabotaged-due-to-disagreement-over-parking-space

Not condoning the damage to your car. But what did your boss say when you told him that the other owner/user of the lane said that you can't park in the spot? The boss saying it's OK to park in someone else's place doesn't make it OK, right of way rarely includes parking rights.

Peregrinus · 13-12-2021 7:04am

I agree that the offence would be criminal damage. As to seriousness, the maximum penalty on summary conviction is €1,270 or 12 months. But I also agree that proving that "this fella from the other business" is responsible would be difficult, on the evidence currently available. Can the OP even identify him at the moment, never mind prove beyond reasonable doubt that he is responsible?

None of which is to say that the OP should not report the matter to the guards - he should. A successful prosecution looks unlikely, but the guards may wish to have a conversation with the landowner, especially if the OP's complaint is not the only one they receive. And, if it is the landowner who is responsible, some police attention might help to put manners on him.

I also agree that its entirely possible that the OP has no right to park in the right of way. That of course would not justify criminal damage, or be any kind of a defence to the charge. But I think the OP should stop parking there, and let his boss know why. If his boss has actually negotiated a right to park, them presumably he will want to defend that right and he will take the matter up with the landowner. But as matters stand the OP would, if challenged, be unable to prove that he has any right to park that the landowner must respect. If he has no right to park, then leaving his car there is a trespass.

Jim2007 · 13-12-2021 7:04am

The damage to your car is a serious matter and it is up to the Garda and the DPP how that will pan out.

Equal serious is the fact that you seem to think it is acceptable to break the law if your boss tells you to. You are an adult and you are responsible for your actions - you knew you were trespassing and you continued to do so even after owner requested to move your car and just because the owner has plenty of space does not make it more acceptable. How far would you go? Health & safety regulations? Food safety regulations? Industrial espionage?

In Actuality · 14-12-2021 4:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313064#Comment_118313064

@Peregrinus s I agree that the offence would be criminal damage. As to seriousness, the maximum penalty on summary conviction is €1,270 or 12 months. But I also agree that proving that "this fella from the other business" is responsible would be difficult, on the evidence currently available. Can the OP even identify him at the moment, never mind prove beyond reasonable doubt that he is responsible?

It baffles me you're so quick to assume I wouldn't be able to identify him. Having been onto my boss it turns out he is actually the owner of that business. A quick google of his first name and the company showed up who is was to me. I have of course stopped parking there. But plenty of the others from my company still park there. If he really had that much of an issue with it wouldn't he been putting notices on those cars, or have signs up?

Del2005 · 14-12-2021 9:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118321314#Comment_118321314

ID him doing the damage. Knowing someone did something and proofing they did it are completely different. Ask your local Garda who's been stealing, criminal damage, beating their wife etc and they'll give you a name a few people, most crime is committed by a small amount of people, getting enough proof to convict them is the problem.

He told you not to park there why would he need a sign when he told you not to park, especially when people claim not to see signs.

14-12-2021 9:46pm

Sabotaging your car, Could have caused an accident. Suspect most business have CCTV. an angle for the DPP would be if CCTV footage was available usually but no footage supplied at time of sabotage.

Depending on his business it could be possible to anomyously and legally raise mischief for him

Peregrinus · 15-12-2021 1:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118321314#Comment_118321314

I didn't assume that you couldn't identify him; I just raised the question of whether you could or not, since nothing in the OP suggested you knew anything about him beyond the fact that he was in some way connected with the other business. But as you do know who he is, well, great; that will certainly make it easier to make a complaint about him to the guards.

But you raise a good point when you say that plenty of your colleagues still park there, and he doesn't seem to have a problem with that, because he hasn't being doing anything to discourage it. But that fact, if anything, suggests that he's less likely to have sabotaged your car, doesn't it? If he was pursuing a sustained campaign against unauthorised parking that others could testify to, that would be one thing, but he isn't; all we have is the fact that he exchanged words with you on one occasion. For whatever reason he seems to have taken a scunner against you - God knows why - but it's a pretty thin case on which to base an allegation of sabotage.

I would still report this, if I were you, if only because if anything further happens you may be glad that there is already a record of this incident.

In Actuality · 17-12-2021 1:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323455#Comment_118323455

Well if he didn't, then who did? Funny thing was, on the day itself I had forgotten about where my boss had told me to park, and had went to drive straight in to where my place of work is. When I was nearly there I was blocked by this very guy's van as he was taking stuff out of it. He parked it in a very bad place as it was blocking anyone who wanted to pass in the opposite direction. There was no effort from him to communicate as I saw him at the rear of the van. He looked very grumpy. After about 15 seconds I got out to ask him if he'd be much longer, but just as I did he came around the other side of the van to get back into it. I got back into my car... he didn't say anything and neither did I. Then as I was able to drive through I realised what my boss had said about parking, so I doubled back (90 yards) to park it in the driveway I described earlier. I should've just left it there. I think he was just after parking his van at the point that I had parked. I've since noticed that there's a camera right over the parking space I was in; so he might have some explaining to do if it was turned off at the time he did the act.

I remember walking past him a few days earlier and thinking "he looks like a right a$shole, thank God I don't have to deal with him as he's working for a different company". Of course I was wrong as my car was parked on his property and he was the owner.

seagull · 17-12-2021 5:03pm

If there's a camera there, get onto the gardai quickly and ask them to request footage.

Peregrinus · 18-12-2021 7:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118336999#Comment_118336999

"If he didn't, then who did" is not a basis on which he can be charged, much less convicted. If you can get other evidence, it's a different story.

Skatedude · 20-12-2021 5:13am

Or just report him for threatening to kill you which is a more serious crime?

In Actuality · 21-12-2021 12:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349984#Comment_118349984

Funnily enough the guard I gave the statement to sort of talked me into saying that I didn't take the threat literally. On the one hand, I didn't take it literally, but at the same time I didn't really know how to take it as I don't know the guy.

paul71 · 21-12-2021 12:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349984#Comment_118349984

Absolutely, that is assault.

In Actuality · 21-12-2021 12:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355847#Comment_118355847

Well serious crime as it is, wouldn't it be abuse and not assault?

mickdw · 21-12-2021 12:30pm

Waiting as his van blocked the road, asking him how long he would be only to then drive through and back and park at a spot that meant you didn't need to pass the van at all suggests to me that you are causing a great deal of this trouble yourself.

Just imagine how this looked to the property owner.

paul71 · 21-12-2021 12:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355878#Comment_118355878

No its assault. I am unaware of any criminal offence called abuse.

Non Fatal offences against the persons Act 1997.

Assault.

2.—(1) A person shall be guilty of the offence of assault who, without lawful excuse, intentionally or recklessly—

(a) directly or indirectly applies force to or causes an impact on the body of another, or

(b) causes another to believe on reasonable grounds that he or she is likely immediately to be subjected to any such force or impact,

without the consent of the other.

Also Section 5.

5.—(1) A person who, without lawful excuse, makes to another a threat, by any means intending the other to believe it will be carried out, to kill or cause serious harm to that other or a third person shall be guilty of an offence,

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—

(a) on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or to both, or

(b) on conviction on indictment to a fine or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or to both.

Fandymo · 21-12-2021 1:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356005#Comment_118356005

she is likely immediately to be subjected to any such force or impact,

without the consent of the other.

I don’t think the above would count

paul71 · 21-12-2021 1:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356100#Comment_118356100

Followed him 150 meters to say "I'm gonna F8cking kill ya"

Seems to meet the criteria, most definitely worthy of a criminal compliant of assault to the Guards and should they fail to interview the person then a question could certainly be posed as to why. The DPP in all likelyhood would not prosecute but a criminal investigation would send a message to this clown to tone down his behaviour.

paul71 · 21-12-2021 3:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356166#Comment_118356166

Complaint (Why did boards remove edit button), my spelling is exposed for all to see!

Xander10 · 21-12-2021 3:22pm

Where do you park now out of interest?

Former Former Former · 21-12-2021 3:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313065#Comment_118313065

Equal serious is the fact that you seem to think it is acceptable to break the law if your boss tells you to

Is illegal parking really equally serious to drilling a hole in the radiator and air con of someone's car??

Fandymo · 21-12-2021 4:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356166#Comment_118356166

But that never happened. He said "if you park there again I'll fcuking kill ya", it’s literally in the OP in quotation marks. Nothing immediate about a threat based in the future.

Jim2007 · 21-12-2021 5:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356863#Comment_118356863

At the end of the day the law is the law and your boss can't give you an exemption. And on top of that the OP has nothing more than a suspicion and that's about as useful as a chocolate teapot when it comes to actually taking any action.

21-12-2021 5:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356100#Comment_118356100

Also Section 5.

5.—(1) A person who, without lawful excuse, makes to another a threat, by any means intending the other to believe it will be carried out, to kill or cause serious harm to that other or a third person shall be guilty of an offence,

it would count, yes. Jesus sake like if you tell someone I’m gonna kill you jan 1st 2022 at 11am it’s still a flipping threat ffs.

kirving · 21-12-2021 8:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356863#Comment_118356863

Haven't you forgotten the no. 1 rule of Boards.ie. The OP is always wrong.

Fandymo · 21-12-2021 9:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118357482#Comment_118357482

“intending the other to believe it will be carried out” - if the OP believed it would be carried out, he wouldn’t park there again, negating the belief it will be carried out.

Akrasia · 21-12-2021 9:13pm

The kind of guy who would sabotage another person's car for a minor inconvenience is likely to react much more violently if the OP gets the gardai involved

If it was me, I'd steer clear of the man. You don't want to be on this guys radar any more than you already are

The garda won't be able to protect you from him

In Actuality · 25-04-2022 11:32am

The guards got the footage from that business back in January, but no footage over the parking space I was in. I noticed the connection to that camera had been pulled loose. At the time they hadn't yet managed to get a statement from the suspect and I didn't hear from them since. I think he might have been using Covid as an excuse not to meet at the time.

I'm going to get onto my solicitor tomorrow about this as it hasn't sat well with me, and it's closing in on the six month deadline. I know it will cost me money but I'd like to hear his opinion on the death threat. I might also print out a map of the business park to explain it properly. I do have two people from my business at the time, who witnessed him confront me... although they didn't hear the exchange.

feelings · 25-04-2022 3:08pm

What did your boss/employer tell you after you informed them of the first incident?

In Actuality · 25-04-2022 7:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118974927#Comment_118974927

When he heard about the altercation he said "yeah don't park there; park out by the gate" and that that was where I parked! He then acted surprised and said "gee I don't know what that means because I've other guys parking out there". He also said "that fella is the biggest a**hole going... most days he doesn't even say hello when I pass him". My boss did not say "don't park there again so". He just said "you never know he might get a good night's sleep and be alright tomorrow". A few days later when I told him about the car and going to the guards he just texted back "okay". Next time we happened to speak was on the phone and he asked how I got on with the guards, but he didn't ask since then. The same fella was a bit too laid back.

BArra · 26-04-2022 12:43pm

dash cam hardwired to fusebox so that it works in 'parking mode', get one that is impact/motion activated which most would be. they dont cost the world and you never know when you will need them. usually its too late when you wish you had one, dont get caught again

Car sabotaged due to disagreement over parking space

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