Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

freyners · 21-12-2021 1:46pm

It's worth acknowledging that's two international quality locks we have lost from our squad recently next season. Ultan also an important ball carrier for us too.

Dubinusa · 21-12-2021 1:47pm

There's Forde and Jennings coming through. They could look at one of Leinster's lads. Tommy O Brien or Conor O Brien.

realhorrorshow · 21-12-2021 2:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356014#Comment_118356014

There's no avoiding it, a team with our resources losing two international locks in consecutive seasons is a huge blow. Leaves us with one lock who I would argue is international qualify, if not capped (Thornbury), two decent URC players who may have the potential to progress (Murray = potential international, Dowling = potential decent Euro level), and some adequate backup in Fifita and Masterson.

Tbh I assumed Fifita was a short term fix and I haven't seen much reason to keep him on thus far, but with our depth eroding he may earn a contract.

Would like to see us go after Jack Dunne. Scrummaging, mauling, rucking tighthead locks are becoming the most sought after asset in rugby. There are few Irish players with the size to play the role, if there's an opportunity to snaffle one of them I hope we take it.

realhorrorshow · 21-12-2021 2:15pm

Loosehead

Denis Buckley (32) - Signed contract in 2021

Matthew Burke (25) - Signed contract in 2021

Jordan Duggan (24) - Signed contract in 2021

Tietie Tuimauga (28) - Signed contract in 2021

Charlie Ward (22) - Academy year 2

Tighthead

Jack Aungier (23) - Signed contract in 2022

Finlay Bealham (31) - Signed contract in 2021

Sam Illo (21) - Signed 2 year contract in 2021

Greg McGrath (25) - Signed contract in 2021

Dominic Robertson-McCoy (28) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020

Hooker

Shane Delahunt (28) - Signed contract in 2021

Dave Heffernan (31) - Signed contract in 2021

Jonny Murphy (30) - Signed contract in 2021

Dylan Tierney-Martin (23) - Signed contract in 2021

Declan Adamson (23) - Academy year 3

Eoin De Buitléar (20) - Academy year 2

Lock

Oisin Dowling (25) - Signed contract in 2022

Leva Fifita (33) - Signed contract in 2021

Niall Murray (22) - Signed contract in 2021

Gavin Thornbury (28) - Signed contract in 2021

Darragh Murray (21) - Academy year 2

Back row

Paul Boyle (25) - Signed contract in 2021

Jarrad Butler (31) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020

Eoghan Masterson (29) - Signed contract in 2021

Sean Masterson (24) - Signed contract in 2021

Conor Oliver (26) - Signed contract in 2021

Abraham Papali’i (29) - Signed contract in 2021

Cian Prendergast (22) - Signed contract in 2021

Ciaran Booth (22) - Academy year 2

Donnacha Byrne (21) - Academy year 2

Oisin McCormack (21) - Academy year 3

Scrumhalf

Caolin Blade (28) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020

Kieran Marmion (30) - Signed 3 year contract in 2020

Colm Reilly (23) - Signed contract in 2021

Will Reilly (u22) - Academy year 1

Outhalf

Jack Carty (30) - Signed 3 year contract in 2022

Conor Fitzgerald (24) - Signed contract in 2021

Centre

Bundee Aki (32) - Signed 3 year central contract in 2020

Shayne Bolton (22) - Signed contract in 2021

Tom Daly (29) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020

Tom Farrell (28) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020

Peter Robb (28) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020

Shane Jennings (21) - Academy year 3

Cathal Forde (20) - Academy year 2

Back 3

Mack Hansen (24) - Signed 2 year contract in 2021

Matt Healy (33) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020

Oran McNulty (22) - Signed contract in 2021

Ben O'Donnell (27) - Signed contract in 2020

Tiernan O'Halloran (31) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020

John Porch (28) - Signed contract in 2021

Peter Sullivan (24) - Signed contract in 2021

Alex Wootton (28) - Signed contract in 2021

Diarmuid Kilgallen (22) - Academy year 2

Josh O'Connor (21) - Academy year 1

IN:

OUT: Ultan Dillane (Lock, TBC), Sammy Arnold (Centre, Brive)

*ages as at 01/09/2022

ClanofLams · 21-12-2021 2:43pm

Need someone with experience, Dillane & Roux had hundreds of appearances between them.

Murray & Dowling have prob 20/25 caps each, even thornbury is only around a few seasons. Someone like Jean Kleyn would be ideal albeit he may not want to leave Munster.

freyners · 21-12-2021 3:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356241#Comment_118356241

Kleyns skill set is something we lack in our squad but, and fully admitting I dont follow Munster as closely I used to, he has always come across as liable to give away 2-3 penalties a game (which to be fair, would make him similar to Roux on occasion). I would have thought he is a fairly regularly player in their 23 and with the rumours that both Snyman and De Allende might not be staying on I doubt he will go anywhere.

I like the above suggestion of Jack Dunne is he was available

Paul Smeenus · 21-12-2021 3:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356127#Comment_118356127

Isn't Papali'i confirmed away as well?

b.gud · 21-12-2021 3:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356559#Comment_118356559

Rumoured to be off to Brive too but nothing confirmed yet

ClanofLams · 21-12-2021 3:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356457#Comment_118356457

Yeah I agree Kleyn is unlikely. Someone of his ilk would be good but not easy to find obviously. We will probably need to look overseas, I don’t see Jack Dunne leaving given Toner may retire and James Ryan & Baird regularly with Ireland.

On another note, Henderson & Stuart McCloskey are out for Ulster this weekend with injury.

Connacht v Stormers being switched from early January to February may be a good thing in that it gives two weeks from interpros to European games. Obviously drawbacks too as will be missing Bealham, Aki, Carty presumably and anyone else involved with Ireland.

Utopia Parkway · 21-12-2021 4:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356010#Comment_118356010

If true we'll have gone from having loads of depth at centre to very little. Especially considering Farrell's injury troubles in recent years and Bundee being used sparingly.

Tough to lose Roux and Dillane in successive Summers I must say. Good young players there but you have to think they'll be a second row coming in but who knows? Looks like there will be a few holes to fill at the end of the season and given the budget they will have to prioritise positions.

realhorrorshow · 21-12-2021 5:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356884#Comment_118356884

Won't get too wound up about Daly until it happens, but I agree. Having guys in their prime with decent experience who can step into the first team with little drop off from the incumbents is so valuable. We have Bolton who is making a bit of an impression already and Forde and Jennings who are top tier prospects, but a first choice pairing plus a bunch of kids is not an ideal depth chart. Peter Robb could fill Daly's role to an extent (certainly not the covering 10 part), but experience is not much use if he rarely makes it onto the pitch.

macslash · 21-12-2021 5:45pm

That's depressing if true about Daly. He has become a real fan favourite. Really disheartening if he is going south as with Farrell's injuries over the last while, Daly is a first choice player.

Utopia Parkway · 21-12-2021 6:44pm

No idea if the Daly thing is true although DDA is leaving Munster at the end of the season apparently so there would be an opening there.

jimdemp · 21-12-2021 8:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118357242#Comment_118357242

I remember on the master of none podcast he said he was glad to get back to Carlow after being stuck in Galway for a couple weeks due to covid etc made me think at the time maybe he was not a big fan of Galway. Carlow to limerick thats around 1.30 hours so you could drive every day from home. Galway is a extra hour give or take? Tom was forever injured before the Connacht move so maybe the style of play helped or he just got a lucky run who knows.

Utopia Parkway · 21-12-2021 8:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118357933#Comment_118357933

In fairness nowhere is great during Covid. He was probably just glad to get back home for a while.

testtech05 · 21-12-2021 10:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356020#Comment_118356020

While the lads are big prospects no doubt I think it would be very disappointing for us to lose Daly who has proven himself to be one of our most consistent players to another province.

I thought we might not be too badly off losing Arnold if we kept the others and looked to bring through Forde/Jennings but if we lose Tom aswell that will leave quite a hole in the squad.

Coupled with both Ultan and Quinn leaving as others have said not easy shoes to fill, if Gavin and Oisin can stay fit it would help and Murray keeps improving as he is

Zeugnis · 21-12-2021 10:23pm

My understanding is that provinces are not allowed to outbid one another for player contracts. Can someone provide more detail on this? How did this play with Henshaw?

Very sorry to see Ultan leave but understand it. He's put in many years of great service, no cause for complaint, hope he wins both glory and riches. Will assume for now that the claim about Tom Daly is a mix of ****-stirring and acquisitiveness given that it comes from Duncan Casey, i.e. Three Red Kings. Here is the article:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/arid-40770354.html

stephen_n · 21-12-2021 10:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358481#Comment_118358481

Henshaw didn’t move to Leinster for more money. That’s how it played. He wanted to be in Dublin.

Zeugnis · 21-12-2021 10:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358562#Comment_118358562

I didn't intend to give the impression that he did, and FWIW I'm very fond of Henshaw, who comes across as an extremely unassuming person as well as a superb player.

But is it the case that his contract was required not to exceed what he was getting in Connacht? I would like to know the status and substance of the rule, or whether it its mierely a convention.

Former Former Former · 21-12-2021 10:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358593#Comment_118358593

Henshaw got a central contract so he'd be on the same money regardless of where he was playing. He didn't move for money.

ClanofLams · 21-12-2021 11:42pm

Provinces can’t out bid each other officially but there can be commercial influences, for example a couple of weeks after henshaw to Leinster was confirmed, he was unveiled as the newest ambassador of Canterbury rugby. Be pretty naive to think those sort of things aren’t a factor.

22-12-2021 3:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358905#Comment_118358905

I think Were starting to see, that the IRFU are in real trouble with $$. were 2 years in to an unrcertain pandemic, I expect all the provinces to loose players, both in overall numbers and also some quality. The money just isnt there. We might be seeing it early in Conn, but France seems un affected and budgets are higher,

Ultan deserves his day in the Sun, He is everyhting good about Conn, but not really in the running for Ireland. I actually would feel worse loosing Daly, nb Arnold is a real loss.

jimdemp · 22-12-2021 6:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118359352#Comment_118359352

IRFU have cash reserves of around 50 million and just got another 20 million from the Government, they even gave Ringrose a big 3 year Central contract recently. There is a reason the IRFU wont publish accounts like say the GAA. I saw a French report which broke down all the structures in Leinster be it from private school academy funding to Central contracts and Leinster were spending the most yearly in world rugby.

stephen_n · 22-12-2021 10:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118359405#Comment_118359405

Private schools have nothing to do with Leinster. They’re private entities. So how can that be included in their spending? If you want to throw in private schools into the mix. How many of Connacht’s current squad came through private schools?

Zzippy · 22-12-2021 12:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118359874#Comment_118359874

They play schools rugby under the Leinster branch. The Leinster player development pathway very much identifies players in schools and brings them through. The top schools players go into the Leinster academy. Yes, the schools are separate, but the money they spend on coaches, facilities etc benefits Leinster rugby. And later, if they don't make it, some of those players may sign for other provinces, and it benefits the other provinces too. The best players stay with Leinster so they get the greatest benefit. But to an outsider i.e. someone in France, they see a big spend on developing young players and while it may not appear on Leinster Rugby's balance sheet, they won't agree it has nothing to do with Leinster.

stephen_n · 22-12-2021 2:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360448#Comment_118360448

Leinster invest no money in the schools though. Any more than Munster do to the private schools down there. Yes it’s a benefit to Leinster in terms of player development, so is being based in the main population center in the country. The Private schools budget has absolutely nothing to do with Leinster.

I doubt very much any of the English clubs take into account the spend on private schools that they benefit from.

jimdemp · 22-12-2021 3:52pm

You don't seem to understand what i was talking about. The report was done on the structures of Leinster rugby. If a French club is to copy the Leinster model they will have to match the Funding from Privates school to Central Contracts etc etc. Funding on the overall Leinster product was the highest in Club rugby.

Former Former Former · 22-12-2021 3:55pm

Hang on.

Leinster (or IRFU?) should be including money spent by schools, in schools, on rugby coaching of schoolkids, as part of their accounts??

Would you ever stop.

jimdemp · 22-12-2021 4:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361442#Comment_118361442

The IRFU should of course publish accounts for how they spend the money, especially after the tax payers has given over 50 million to off set losses due to covid.

KBurke85 · 22-12-2021 4:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361442#Comment_118361442

This whole conversation is probably in the wrong thread

Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

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