Novavax and the lack of Vaccine Choice

Blut2 · 21-12-2021 10:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358112#Comment_118358112

"Are you honestly saying the EMA, US FDA, etc and thousands of independent scientists are wrong."

They have been extremely wrong about flu vaccinations in recent memory:

25% of the US population alone was vaccinated before the dangers emerged and the program was cancelled - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_swine_flu_outbreak

15% of the UK Population vaccinated again before substantial dangers emerged and the program was cancelled - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemrix

etc. The idea that the EMA and FDA are infallible has been proven wrong, to the cost of millions of people, repeatedly in recent history on flu vaccinations alone.

The fact that they've given total legal immunity to the vaccine manufacturers, so you can't sue them if anything goes wrong, also doesn't help. This is not something that happens regularly:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-compensation-lawsuit.html

I'm double vaxxed myself, and far from a Bill Gates-Soros-Microchip anti-vaxxer nut. But your trying to discredit Wibbs' very logical, well expressed doubts because they're "dangerous", or "because the FDA/EMA say so", seems rather silly. Theres plenty of fact based history to support Wibbs' views.

Novavax should absolutely be made available in Ireland (and elsewhere) to reach people who share similar views. Or who can't take the current vaccines for medical/adverse reaction reasons. Theres just no reason not to offer it.

Pwindedd · 21-12-2021 10:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358341#Comment_118358341

Good point! But it’d definitely be worth adding Novavax to our arsenal as soon as we can. I’d personally feel more comfortable with an ‘old skool’ vaccine.

Giving people choice (ergo control) over decisions that they’re hesitating or struggling with, can help nudge them over the line. However irrational or illogical their initial reluctance.

Wibbs · 21-12-2021 10:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358281#Comment_118358281

Because people often don't do nuance very well, especially in extremis like an emergency and of course online debate can magnify this. We take up one position or other and defend it to the hilt. Any deviation from that can be seen as an attack against the entirety of that position. Even an attack against the position holder themselves. Now I do take Lumen's position on board regarding reasonable debate that could swing some into going full anti vaxx(though I would say that type has already made up their mind, as that type tends to). That itself is a reasonable thing to say. On the other hand it would be hard to track down someone as pro vaccination as me.I consider antivaccination types up there with those who believe in crystals and homeopathy, deluded at best, thundering fcukwits at worst. Though anti vaccination types are much more dangerous in a population. Even so in this thread I've been told I'm a conspiracy type even an anti vaccine type.

I've often said when reading the various positions on masks, vaccines, lockdowns and so on thank christ this wasn't something like smallpox. We'd be utterly fúcked. The government would have imploded, NPHET wouldhave pulled the skeleton outa themselves, but the advantage would be that a third of anti mask/lockdown/vaccine types would be in Glasnevin so there's that and it would probably take out a load of the bogroll stockpiling eejits too. 😁

L1011 · 21-12-2021 10:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358090#Comment_118358090

Those issues were months ago and are not the case now

There is nothing to suggest this vaccine is any more effective than the existing ones for variants; and pandering to the tiny subset of the unvaccinated who are waiting for a specific brand is not worth doing - particularly as the strong likelihood is they're doing it due to reading gubbins on Facebook and not a legitimate reason.

Buying a significant amount of vaccine we don't need to pander to that handful would be the only insanity.

L1011 · 21-12-2021 10:40pm

"If such a choice increased vaccine uptake in the population by a couple of percent it would be worth it."

Where's that couple of percent going to come from? It is actually beyond unlikely to the level that I would say it is impossible that such a significant amount of the currently unvaccinated-but-eligible are waiting for a different brand.

Pwindedd · 21-12-2021 10:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358588#Comment_118358588

Theres a lot of triple jabbed parents, about to make this decision for their children, who might prefer a choice for starters.

L1011 · 21-12-2021 11:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358685#Comment_118358685

Novavax is not approved for use in children. So no, they won't be doing that even if the State does buy supplies.

L1011 · 21-12-2021 11:12pm

Post I was replying to deleted

Danno · 21-12-2021 11:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358741#Comment_118358741

I am the OP of this thread and for reasons @Wibbs outlined umpteen times - was looking for an "old skool" vaccine back sometime in August because AZ and J&J was banned from my age cohort for some strange reason.

If I didn't open this thread I would not have found out that J&J was actually being given out to my age cohort (despite what the HSE website said at that time).

Long story short, if I didn't open this thread I would have not got a vaccine at all. I got J&J before the end of August.

Since opening this thread, several other users PM me on here to find out about getting J&J and they got vaccinated too.

So, to conclude - there are a good few individuals jabbed thanks to this thread being opened.

If you want to [...] say this is "pandering to that handful" like we're some sort of irrational inconveniences, well then that says more about you than us. [...]

Fixed it for you

L1011 · 21-12-2021 11:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358822#Comment_118358822

Well, you got a poor from the off vaccine, that has waned excessively (despite selective quoting of reports on here) that won't be given a booster of itself due to having no worthwhile protection against Omicron (again, there's some exceptionally selective quoting going on here to try and claim it has some use).

I don't consider that a worthwhile use of your time or anyone's resources.

People holding out for another older tech vaccine, but this time one that has had huge teething problems going to market, are an even worse of limited resources. Particularly as other people would likely end up taking it due to it being what was offered at s given time.

In general on here there seems to be an odd emotional investment in having chosen a specific vaccine. This is not something I've seen at all offline.

Wibbs · 21-12-2021 11:42pm

You got jabbed with a vaccine that was always the poorest in the pack; is now waned to near uselessness and will not be offered as a booster here as it has no worthwhile protection against Omricon (at all - let alone compared to the other options).

Jaysus. And I stand accused of spouting utter bollocks? You Sir, set a higher bar. Never mind the almost gleeful tone in your post like you were discussing your favourite band or footballist team that someone suggested were meh. Not that anyone did. "Waned to near uselessness" is at best incomplete a statement. On the neutralising antibody front yep, but then again that's a near obsession for some. In immune memory responses and protection against serious illness and death the jury is very much out. The same "raging case figures" in the age group you mention(we'll ignore the fact that uptake was lower and they're more likely to be out and about and mixing) are also found in South Africa where the same vaccine has been in play and observed for a year and over half a million health workers of different ages has shown no fall off in protection. And if it's so shíte as you claim why did we spend a couple of million firing 500,000 does of it to Nigeria a couple of weeks ago? The lads and lasses in Lagos must be asking themselves WTF?

EDIT Interesting how you deleted your post I quoted even though no post you replied to was deleted and now tempered it down a little for the optics. Oh and you have zero evidence of "no worthwhile protection" against serious illness and death with omicron. Zero. Nobody has yet. We;ve barely got a handle on what this new variant will do, beyond it looking much milder so far. So even after a sneaky edit your still spouting nonsense.

L1011 · 21-12-2021 11:45pm

We sent what we weren't going to use to COVAX because we'd have been pilloried if we didn't.

I'm sensing sunk cost fallacy here.

It was an inferior product in every way and people are getting angry and/or abusive to defend it. As well as seeing things that don't exist (gleeful?) to try argue against.

scouserstation · 21-12-2021 11:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358822#Comment_118358822

Indeed not everybody who refused the mrna vaccines were anti vaxxers or conspiracy theorists, some people just wanted to wait for a particular product to become available, and why not, if there is the capacity there to offer a choice of vaccine then this should not be discouraged, and their are some hesitant people who will take a vaccine if an alternative product is offered, I know if I had the choice last year I wouldn't have got vaccinated with pfizer but hadn't got much choice due to work requirements

Danno · 21-12-2021 11:55pm

@L1011 said I don't consider that a worthwhile use of your time or anyone's resources.

Thankfully you're not in charge of the vaccine rollout.

As for the J&J booster - well the EU regulator has given it the green light: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-regulator-backs-jj-covid-19-booster-dose-adults-2021-12-15/

And this albeit small study was quite interesting: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/12/05/health/covid-vaccine-johnson-pfizer-booster-mix/index.html

Their small study of 65 volunteers who all initially got two doses of Pfizer/BioNTech's vaccine showed that using the J&J Janssen vaccine as a booster produced a slower but more sustained antibody response against the original strain of the virus, as well as the Delta and Beta variants, they said. The Pfizer/BioNTech booster produced a quicker and stronger immune response that dropped off faster, their study suggested.

So, J&J as "poorest in the pack" is not quite as strong an argument as you may think.

L1011 · 21-12-2021 11:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358964#Comment_118358964

The people involved in the rollout here agree with me. Remaining committed purchases dumped to COVAX. Won't be coming back.

Response against Beta and Delta could be useful if any of those variants ever become dominant again, maybe. But they're not going to be any time soon; and that study is pathetically small.

Wibbs · 21-12-2021 11:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358916#Comment_118358916

It was an inferior product in every way eh? Cheaper, easier to transport and use, one dose, which meant tracking and follow ups were less in play, giving enough protection over eight months of trials involving nearly a million test subjects through alpha and delta variants and memory T and B cells increased over that time? Every way eh? Even if it were pure muck today, you'd still be spouting nonsense.

scouserstation · 23-12-2021 12:30am

Novavax vaccine shows strong immunity response against variants including omicron

Danno · 23-12-2021 11:40am

Interesting if early days. If they can get production up it would be great.

Mysteriouschic1 · 24-12-2021 1:23am

This was the vaccine I was waiting for or Valneva I avoided all the current vaccines so far I didn't feel comfortable taking a MRNA vaccine along with Pfizer criminal history . I'm hoping it'll be available as a primary vaccine and not only a booster.

Bass Reeves · 25-12-2021 12:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118368487#Comment_118368487

W

I hear there is a new vaccine being licenced in mid-late 2022. Its a true traditional vaccine. No mRNA or even RNA in it. Maybe you should wait for that. Aswell ivermectin is an option, there is a risk of motor neurone but it may be more up your alley

c.p.w.g.w · 25-12-2021 1:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371511#Comment_118371511

Ivermectin is deemed one of the most important medicines in human history, person who developed it won a Nobel...

It's used for many viral infections, where is the link with motor neuron?

Danno · 25-12-2021 3:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371511#Comment_118371511

Probably Valneva?

patnor1011 · 25-12-2021 6:03am

Oh well, regarding the vaccines even the most quoted while being least qualified said we will have to wait for second or third generation of vaccines. That may be the only thing I may agree with from what he said so far.

Mysteriouschic1 · 27-12-2021 8:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371511#Comment_118371511

Yeah I think thats the Valneva. I'd rather no vaccine if I had it my way . I might go with novavax just in case they find a reason to stop it and then all thats left is pfizer and moderna again. There's a big force for the mrna vaccines.

Novavax and the lack of Vaccine Choice

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